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Contents 1 Article alerts 2 Heather Harmon Alerts 3 Maybe Someone Knows? 4 Problems at Mayfair (magazine) 5 Are links to actual porno kosher?

[edit] Article alerts

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Thanks. — Headbomb {^ταλκ_{κοντριβς} – WP Physics} 09:34, 15 March, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Heather Harmon Alerts

Heather Harmon is not showing up in the Article Alerts under deletions. Is it tagged properly? -- Stillwaterising (talk) 22:46, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

It's there now. Maybe it just took some time to update. Stillwaterising (talk) 06:49, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Maybe Someone Knows?

Who is this model?174.3.111.148 (talk) 10:38, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

No idea but he has a slight resemblance to Ethan Hawke. Dismas|^(talk) 13:32, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

It's Erik Grant. 81.156.180.206 (talk) 23:39, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Problems at Mayfair (magazine)

I am having ongoing problems on Mayfair (magazine) with an overzealous editor. This has culiminated in them removing the list of featured models as "unsourced." When I partially reinstated it with references to the specific issues each individual appear it, they deleted it again claiming, "WP:RS, primary sources, referencing amounts to "I saw her in the magazine" -- secondary sources preferred WP:V problems." I have reinstated the referenced list, which seems no different to the existing on on Playboy. Any input on this dispute would be appreciated. Nick Cooper (talk) 18:00, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Note that pretty much the same issue was just discussed and resolved at Talk:List_of_mainstream_films_with_unsimulated_sex, where secondary sourcing was required, and the films themselves were not acceptable (primary) sources. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 19:02, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

The editor in question, Hullaballoo Wolfowitz, is apparently on some sort of holy mission to remove as much sexually related content as he can get away with. See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_mainstream_films_with_unsimulated_sex_(2nd_nomination). --Minutae (talk) 18:57, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

I reverted him on the Mayfair article, explaining that the use of primary sources is allowed to make descriptive claims under WP:PRIMARY. For something debatable and necessitates interpretation like figuring out whether unsimulated sex had occurred by looking at the primary source, that would be unacceptable original research. As for the holy mission comment, Minutae, assume good faith. Morbidthoughts (talk) 19:06, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

I think you're wrong on this point, close to clearly wrong, being you're presuming that the magazine accurately identifies/names its models. This isn't a characteristic of softcore porn magazines in general, and there's nothing to back up the (implicit) claim that the specific magazine does so. Unless the magazine reliably identifies its models, we're left with unreliable "I looked at the pictures and it's her" IDs (a claim that NC himself made in a related discussion). WP:PRIMARY also states that "Primary sources that have been reliably published (for example, by a university press or mainstream newspaper) may be used in Wikipedia, but only with care, because it is easy to misuse them"; I would think that Mayfair doesn't meet that standard for reliability. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 19:16, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

If that is true about Mayfair not accurately identifies/names its models, needing interpretation to identify a model, then of course; citing to the issue is not enough. I haven't looked at a Mayfair in years so I can't remember how they name their models. I just presumed it was no different than Playboy or Penthouse. Morbidthoughts (talk) 19:43, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

After a google search, it seems to me that Mayfair names its models clearly, especially the celebrity ones, so there's no interpretation is needed. Its possible Mayfair may misidentify a model, but I thinks its very unlikely. Epbr123 (talk) 20:01, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Mayfair in the timeframe in question (1980s/90s) certainly was analagous to contemporary issues of Playboy in that it was a high-profile, high-circulation, and high-quality publication, not some obscure knock-off. Naturally some glamour models very occasionally worked under different names, but were frequently retrospectively identified later on, which is the case with the specific disputed case HW refers to. Their suggestion that this was predominently the case, or that models were usually not named in the magazine at the time is disingenuous, to say the least.

It should also be noted that HW is grossly misrepresenting the other dispute relating to the magazine by claiming it as a case of "I looked at the pictures and it's her." This refers to the actress "Louise Germaine," who was born Tina Reid. She appeared in Mayfair under her birth name, years before she adopted the "Germaine" pseudonym for acting. Despite the Tina Reid in the magazine being described as coming from exactly the same home town (Margate in Kent) as "Louise Germaine," HW has suggested that that the link could not be made as it may not be the same person. It is only at this point that the fact that "they look the same" comes into play. Nick Cooper (talk) 22:04, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Are links to actual porno kosher?

I'm contributing to articles about porno in India, e.g.: Savita Bhabhi, Pornography in India. I would like to link to some stories written by amateurs to support my point that a lot of premarital/extramarital sex in India occurs within extended families, and this is reflected in Indian porno.

The links have the usual four-letter words -- often in Hindi as well as English. Furthermore the webpages are embellished with explicit photos that aren't really connected to the stories. Is it OK to have these links? Do I have a duty to warn folks about explicit language and images? Or is this just an exercise in futility where WP's morality cops are bound to prevail? LADave (talk) 06:19, 26 November 2009 (UT

• It's fine to link to reliable sources that happen to contain swearing or explicit photos. However, using stories written by amateurs to support your points seems like original research to me. Epbr123 (talk) 16:01, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Good point. OK, let's say I cite a few scholars making this point but go on to link to actual porno. Would that still cross the "original research" line? LADave (talk) 06:53, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

If you've cited your points to reliable scolarly sources, I can't see any need to also include links to actual porn. It may give the impression you're trying to promote certain porn sites. Epbr123 (talk) 14:35, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

• That being said, warnings don't need to be made. The reader is already reading about pornography. Why would they expect to find "clean" text and images? Dismas|^(talk) 00:49, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, some readers might assume they're being directed to further scholarly discussion that would hardly ever be offensive per se. Now we are talking about material mostly without literary pretensions that can be pretty raw. Seems to me that a TV show about the porno industry showing actual clips would warn viewers about explicit material, so why not do the same in WP? LADave (talk) 06:53, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Without knowing the details of the pages in question, I don't know whether any of the points at WP:ELNO would apply or not, but if they do match any of those descriptions they probably should not be included. John Carter (talk) 17:56, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

I can't point to a guideline or policy that spells it out specifically but, in the past, such "warning: offensive/adult material" warnings have been removed from links on articles of porn stars, porn films, production companies, etc. Dismas|^(talk) 18:04, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

• I don't see that the rules should be any different to any other kind of link. So yes, you should be aware of issues such as whether the links are a reliable source, or would be original research, or constitute spamming/advertising (I agree with what Epbr123 says on this). But there is no problem with the fear of it offending people, nor any need to warn people. See Wikipedia:No disclaimers in articles. Mdwh (talk) 15:08, 28 November 2009 (UTC)