A "standard" WP:ROUTE diagram
consisting 60+ icons |
| This route map: view • talk • edit |
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As ALT text is growingly becoming the standard for FA. Transport articles which use the Wikipedia:route diagram template (WP:ROUTE or RDT) to draw the map got the problem that we have no solution for how to display the well written ALT text for the diagram. Simply put, the WP:ROUTE is a series of templates to build up a table by applying the proper icon images out of 3000+ and joining them cohesively which resembles a line map.
Should we consider the whole map is a "single image" and repeat the same ALT for each icon image or write different ALT text for each icon image individually? Thx -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 02:19, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
- I am following this up in Wikipedia talk:Route diagram template #Alt text in route diagrams. Eubulides (talk) 08:18, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
- Today there seem to be only two railway icons which show what they represent when moused over, STR gives "Straight track" and HST gives "Stop". All the rest give "Unknown route-map component 'aAAa' " where aAAa is the icon. This is a new effect introduced without general notice and I think that, despite the WP rule "Do as you please", it should not have been sprung on users, even in such a limited experimental mode; it's no reply to say that it was discussed in the talk of some not generally read article. It may very well be a Good Thing to have alt text on these icons for some people but not at the loss of the icon name which can be useful when editing a map. Whatever might be the coding difficulties, to display either alt text or the icon name should be an option for the individual reader of the map. Of course given the ever increasing number of icons and their complexity and their ever changing names it looks as tho any alt text implementation would never be fully up to date. What succinct wording would describe xkKRZo+xl? "Straight track bridged over a crosswise straight track with a wee filling quasi-triangle of disused line in the driver's 'left hand' lower corner"?--SilasW (talk) 17:11, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
- This issue is really more a matter for Wikipedia talk:Route diagram template, which as I understand it is standard place where such things are discussed; if this is incorrect, could you please let me know where it should have been discussed, so that I can put a notice there? Anyway, I am following up at Wikipedia talk:Route diagram template #Today there seem to be only two railway icons. Eubulides (talk) 18:26, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Describing a book or publication
Several of the articles I've worked on contain the front pages of out-of-copyright books, newspapers, and pamphlets. How should we describe these with alt text? For instance, on Dick Turpin? Parrot of Doom 16:09, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
- I added a suggestion for that to the Text section. Eubulides (talk) 20:06, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Using "caption" attribute for alt text in infoboxes
Hey folks,
So {{infobox lake}} uses a hack which means that if either of the images included in the template don't have alt text specified, then this is derived from the image caption. I'm pretty sure that this is a bad idea (as caption text isn't likely to be useful as alt text in this case, and because it's going to result in duplicated text for screen readers) but I've been unable to convince Docu (talk · contribs), who is watching said template. I've implemented a compromise which at least allows for proper alt text to be specified for now, but any further input would be helpful. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 09:39, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
[edit] How to view alt text when editing?
Would it be appropriate to give or link to instructions about how to turn off images in popular browsers when editing alt text? Non-techy users might appreciate the advice. (Viewing the image properties is all very well, but turning off the images gives instant feedback.) It's pretty easy in Firefox and IE, but you do have to know what to look for.
EdJogg (talk) 10:48, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks, it can't hurt to give it a try; I added instructions for the latest Firefox (instructions for IE would also be welcome). Eubulides (talk) 17:25, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
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- I seem to be finding you plenty to do at present! I can't be certain about the most up-to-date versions of IE, as we are restricted to version 6 at work. Instructions for other common browsers are described below, although IE accounts for about 75% of total usage and Firefox about 20%. (Haven't got current figures.) In all cases it is necessary to refresh/reload the page to see the alt text.
- For IE 6: Tools -> Internet Options -> Advanced -> (uncheck 'Show pictures', then 'Apply')
- SeaMonkey: Edit -> Preferences -> Privacy&Security -> Images -> (check 'Do not load any images' then 'OK')
- Apple Safari: Edit -> Preferences -> Appearance -> (uncheck 'Display images when the page opens')
- Opera: Tools -> Preferences -> Web Pages -> Images ->(select 'No images' then 'OK' and the page will update immediately). Unlike the other browsers (IE, Firefox, SeaMonkey, at any rate) the ALT text does not wrap within the image border, so it's of limited use for this purpose.
- Google Chrome doesn't have an obvious way of doing this.
- Hope this helps!
- EdJogg (talk) 18:59, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
- IE6?!? Yeowch. (Do you work for the Institute of the Dark Ages? :-) Thanks, there should be a good home on Wikipedia for these instructions, perhaps a new page that Wikipedia:Alternative text for images could link to? Maybe we should create a new page Help:Browser settings and link to it from here and from Help:Preferences? (Or does something like that exist already, and I couldn't find it?) And perhaps IE7/IE8 users can chime in with more up-to-date instructions? Eubulides (talk) 19:09, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
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- It's a legacy thing. All our online tools are written to only allow IE use...!
- For this, IE7 is very similar to IE6. Under 'Advanced', the 'Show pictures' option is under 'Multimedia' section (can't remember what it was for IE6) but the option is a similar very long way down a long, scrolling list of options. As for an official help page, I'll leave that to you as it seems to be your thing. But I think we have identified the absence of something useful here. EdJogg (talk) 03:10, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
- Whoops! I made a change to the Firefox navigation sequence to match the version of Firefox I'm using under Vista. I thought what was in the article were instructions for some crufty old Firefox version that had been forgotten about. Now, too late, I see it's a very recent edit! My apologies. I see that my changes were removed minutes after I added them so I don't have to revert them myself. I should have checked the history and talk pages first before diving in, in any case. --Itsfullofstars (talk) 19:16, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Lots of shortcuts
Recently several shortcuts have been added to this page, or to parts of it. Are any of these really needed? Surely WP:ALT is good enough for the entire page (we don't need lots of aliases for that such as MOS:ALT, MOS:ALTTEXT, and WP:ALTTEXT). Also, surely WP:ALT #Purely decorative images is enough for the section; we don't need WP:ALTPDI and MOS:ALTPDI, which are unrecognizable nonce acronyms, and anyway the issue of purely decorative images goes beyond alt text, so it's not clear that these shortcut names should have "ALT" in their names even if they were needed.
Anyway, none of these shortcut names are used in practice, and I'm inclined to remove them from the page unless they're really needed. Eubulides (talk) 03:00, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
- I believe shortcuts are extremely helpful, that's why they are added. And having shortcut for WP:ALT #Purely decorative images is helpful, at least to me. I hate to type out the long and clumsy section name every time I want to refer to the section. But anyway, feel free to delete them all.—Chris!c/t 19:36, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
