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[edit] China

[edit] Shao Yu

(Find sources: "Shao Yu" — search, news, books, scholar, images )

New user started the article without citing references, probably an unreferenced article and fails WP:N. ApprenticeFan ^{talk contribs} 13:08, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of China-related deletion discussions. —J04n(talk page) 13:23, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Anime and manga-related deletion discussions. --J04n(talk page) 13:23, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

I've already added references and plan to add more. PLease don't delete492star (talk) 21:42, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Delete This isn't a game of find a mention on the web somewhere, there has got to be a demonstration of significant, non-trivial coverage in 3rd party reliable sources. That's not here. RadioFan (talk) 22:12, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
If u looked at the external links section, and read more patiently downwards, you'd see Shao Yu's full biography. AND THAT is a non-trivial coverage by the CHINESE people. 492star (talk) 01:25, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
so is it okay now?492star (talk) 19:42, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

It's not clear if this is a reliable source or not. Assuming it is, this article still does not meet guidelines for inclusion as there is not significant coverage in 3rd party sources. --RadioFan (talk) 20:57, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Merge to Qin's Moon. Edward321 (talk) 01:52, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Is there a simpler way?492star (talk) 05:01, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Alright, I provided a reference that is a translation of the entire first season synopsis. Note: The synopsis was made by the Chinese creators. It provides SIGNIFICANT coverage. Is it okay now? Also, the name in the translation for Shao Yu is Siu Yu492star (talk) 05:04, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

A translation of an online synopsis does not count toward meeting the requirement in WP:N, as far as I can tell. Given that the character exists, and that Wikipedia wouldn't be Wikipedia if it didn't have at least a redirect for every minor fictional character, I'll go with merge (to Qin's Moon). Drmies (talk) 05:10, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Keep, but... He appears to be one of the main characters in an animated series. However, rather than have his own article, this should be merged into List of Qin's Moon characters or directly into Qin's Moon. —C.Fred (talk) 05:15, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Tenfu Tea College

(Find sources: "Tenfu Tea College" — search, news, books, scholar, images )

Advertising. No indication of significance or notability. The college's website doesn't even appear to have an English language information page. Exploding Boy (talk) 16:56, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Speedy delete under criterion G11. Dalekusa (talk) 20:53, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Comment. I must take issue with the nomination rationale. Why should we expect a Chinese college to have a web page in any non-Chinese language? Should be delete articles about colleges in anglophone countries that don't have web pages in Chinese? The only bits of the artice that could be said to be promotional were the word "devoted" and the contact information, which I have removed. Here's one reliable source in English - let's see if anyone can find any more in Chinese. Phil Bridger (talk) 18:37, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of China-related deletion discussions. —Phil Bridger (talk) 18:37, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

That was only one part of it, and the reason is that the English Wikipedia prefers English-language sources. Tenfu Tea College gets only about 1000 Google hits, and is apparently a training arm of Tenfu Tea Company (according to the article you found), which we don't have an article on. I don't see much in the way of notability so far. Exploding Boy (talk) 18:59, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

The language of sources has no bearing on the suitability of a subject for an article. The preference for English language sources is part of verifiability policy which doesn't apply "where an English equivalent is not available". Phil Bridger (talk) 19:50, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Keep. There's another story in English here, a different romanization turns up a few local Xiamen sources in English, and there are plenty of gnews and general google hits in Chinese. This story in particular, saying it's the first college in China to be allowed to recruit students directly from private colleges in Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan, suggests some wider importance in recent East Asian educational history. If all high schools are notable, this certainly is. --Paularblaster (talk) 14:08, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Delete This is clearly an ad. The creator User:Icetea8 is a teacher/trainer at the school! (WP:CONFLICT) And 99% of Paularblaster's Chinese Google Hits are ads. According to those Chinese Information, the school is indeed founded by the company and the "students" can go to "intern" at the company and receive job placements after they "graduate." Per WP:ADVERT & WP:CONFLICT, delete. TheAsianGURU (talk) 18:59, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Even with 99% of hits being advertising, there seems to me to be enough grain in amongst the chaff to justify a stub on this institution - or have I missed something about the COI policy that would override the existence of RS? (That's a serious question - I'm no policy expert; if there is I'll withdraw my "keep") --Paularblaster (talk) 10:34, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

If 99% of hits are advertising, that certainly suggests that the place isn't notable, and that there aren't sufficient reliable sources about it to support an article, especially given we don't have an article about the parent company. Exploding Boy (talk) 17:23, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

A reliable source is a reliable source, regardless of however many unreliable sources there might be about. On a point of information, we do have an article on the parent company, at Ten Ren Tea. It's pretty major. --Paularblaster (talk) 18:06, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Keep, per Paularblaster's discovery of more reliable sources. If this is "clearly an ad" then where are the invitations for students to apply to this college, or the claims that this is better than any competitor? What this "clearly" is is a factual description of the subject. What on earth does the claim that students can go to intern at the company and receive job placements after they graduate have to do with the subject's suitability for an encyclopedia article? Just putting words in scare quotes doesn't demonstrate anything. Surely all colleges, and in particular vocational colleges, help students with job placements, but how does that make them unnotable? And, just for completeness, Paularblaster is perfectly correct that it doesn't matter how many advertising sources can be found as long as enough non-advertising sources exist to pass the notability guidelines. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:01, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Funny, then please explain to me since when ad hits = WP:N? Since when WP:CONFLICT can be ignored?! I standby my statement & you don't need to be an article critic here, picking out how I write my stuff. In fact, I don't care what you think. Let's hear what you say about those 2 points first. TheAsianGURU (talk) 23:56, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

I didn't say that ad hits = WP:N. I said that we should ignore the ad hits when evaluating notability, and base our judgement on the non-advertising sources. As regards WP:CONFLICT, it is not by itself a reason for deleting articles written by people with a conflict of interest, but a reason to edit articles to ensure neutrality, as I have done with this article. Phil Bridger (talk) 00:46, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. –Juliancolton ^Tropical ^Cyclone 00:36, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Pékin Fine Arts

Delete. Non-notable art gallery, no independent references, fails WP:COMPANY. Major expansion of the article. WWGB (talk) 10:24, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of China-related deletion discussions. —WWGB (talk) 10:36, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Visual arts-related deletion discussions. —WWGB (talk) 10:47, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
Wait - This article does claim notoriety of the gallery which would also prove the notoriety of its creator (the subject of the article). It has no citations to prove said notoriety but I believe that some time should be give for the creator/editors to post citations. OlYeller^Talktome 10:58, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Note - I looked for some reliable sources and found the text on the wiki article was copied and pasted from the Pekin Fine Arts official website. I'm changing my vote to Delete for that reason. OlYeller^Talktome 11:01, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Delete per nom, and copyvio to boot. -- Alexf^(talk) 13:12, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Comment I declined the G12 deletion and just removed all that text, leaving a stub behind. It's what one should do in those cases. Back on topic, I think there might be sources, there were some when I Google News-ed it. Regards So Why 13:51, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
Keep The references and a quick news search shows that this is not a typical art gallery. This art gallery is mention by western media as the new hot spot of art in Pekin, this is a claim of notability. --J.Mundo (talk) 15:11, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

*Delete The references provided only mention the gallery in passing; hardly substantial. The first reference doesn't seem to mention the gallery at all (if it does, I missed it, which kind of shows how little is being written). I found the mention in the first article listed: a brief interview with the gallery director about the Beijing art scene and the restaurant mentioned in the New York Times article. The google search provided above only point to promotional sites and the existing references. There's really no substancial coverage beyond the trivial at this point. freshacconci talktalk 15:21, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Keep Per the much improved article as it now stands. You see: we art editors are not all crazed deletionists... freshacconci talktalk 17:06, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Delete Per WP:ADVERT. TheAsianGURU (talk) 19:23, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
Weak Keep - Per sources, borderline notability is established here, and the copyvio is resolved (might want to delete that revision just in case). WP:ADVERT is all well and good, but notability trumps it. §FreeRangeFrog 19:46, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
Delete Fails WP:COMPANY because the coverage is trivial and incidental.--Ethicoaestheticist (talk) 23:40, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
Delete Reference 1 and 3 are trivial. 4 only mentions the founder and 2 contains too little information to support a fully article. Lacks sources to meet WP:GNG and makes no other claims to investigate. - Mgm|^(talk) 09:16, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
Note: article expanded throughout with additional references. Existing comments in this AfD relate to earlier versions[1] and [2] so will need to be revisited for the current version. Ty 02:24, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
Strong keep per preceding comment. Listed by The New York Times as amongst the five "top museums and galleries" in Beijing. There are multiple references in major sources, and even when the gallery is not the main subject, the mentions are not trivial, as the gallery owner is consistently seen as a significant figure to quote on topics. Ty 02:32, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
Keep good material..Modernist (talk) 16:03, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

[edit] China Proposed deletions

Yat Lo Fat (via WP:PROD on 18 November 2008)
CITIC Square, Shanghai (via WP:PROD on 21 December 2007)

[edit] Hong Kong Cantonese Slang

(Find sources: "Hong Kong Cantonese Slang" — search, news, books, scholar, images )

Unencyclopedic opinion piece, unsourced. Eeekster (talk) 09:51, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Delete - unreferenced essay per WP:NOR, though it would be good to see a real article on this subject. MuffledThud (talk) 10:39, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 15:59, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Delete Blatant WP:OR violation. Absolutely no reason to keep this on WP. Angryapathy (talk) 17:22, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Speedy Delete per G3 It should also be noted that the creator of this article has been blocked indefinately for vandalism, and the only contributions to WP were on this article. Speedy delete criteria G3 met. Angryapathy (talk) 17:25, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Hong Kong-related deletion discussions. cab (talk) 00:35, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Language-related deletion discussions. cab (talk) 00:35, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Delete per MuffledThud. No prejudice to recreation at a proper title based on real sources. cab (talk) 00:35, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Delete agree that this is opinion piece, needs significant improvement 137.73.68.56 (talk) 12:26, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Delete in present form. May be basis for a serious article, and I have a hunch there probably is. But this version is unsalvageable. --JohnnyB256 (talk) 21:54, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Delete this is a meaningless stub. Tavatar (talk) 03:46, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Taiwan

[edit] June 9

[edit] {{ROC-party-stub}}, {{ROC-politician-stub}}, {{ROC-university-stub}}, {{ROC-bio-stub}}, {{ROC-geo-stub}}, and {{ROC-stub}}

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was delete all. -Mairi (talk) 22:50, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Suggested to list here from WP:WSS/D. Redirect the above templates (ALL unproposed) to Taiwan stub counterparts. impact F = 23:19, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Delete would be a first preference - ROC is not used in stub naming (we've had this argument on other stub names before). If not, then redirect would be a second option. Grutness...wha? 00:57, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
- Comment. But, User:Nihonjoe pointed out at WP:WSS/D that people would quote "likely [to] keep creating them otherwise" and most of the ROC templates were created by User:Montemonte. Should they be change into redirects like User:Nihonjoe suggested?? - impactF= 01:04, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
  - I strongly doubt it, and there are good reasons for not having them. This is the first time these templates have been made, and the Taiwan equivalents have been in use for years. Given how long the Taiwan ones have been in use without redirects having been made, i doubt they'd be likely to be remade again in a hyurry. In any case, as I pointed out, we deliberately don't use "ROC". We don't for several reasons: 1) With the exception of U and US, we don't use abbreviations at all (though there are still early template redirects for New Zealand and Hong ong, since they were originally at NZ- and HK- prior to the formalising of stub naming (in both cases, these redirects are deprecated and will hopefully eventually be removed); 2) Though the Republic of China is the primary usage of ROC, it does also refer to other things, so can be ambiguous; 3) "Republic of China", though used to refer to the country also now informally as Taiwan, can be confusing since the term also refers to Mainland China between 1912 and 1949, so the exact usage of any stubs called "ROC-X-stub" can be ambiguous; 4) The term "Republic of China is still controversial in some quartters, and there is nothing more difficult to deal with on Wiipedia than edit-warring on stub templates. Any changes can affect not only dozens of articles, but also both templates and categories-as such, one edit acts as a multiple edit across a slab of articlespace, templatespace, and categoryspagce. If you think that the term is straightforward and non-controversial, I advise you to have a loo at the history of comments on Template talk:Taiwan-stub and elsewhere;5) As with similar circumstances in other countries, it leaves the door open to dozens of other potential redirect names, which defeats the purpose of standardised naming. Given that we have PRChina-X-stub as the standard for the people's republic, ROChina-X-stub should in theory be standard for Taiwan, no? Or would it be RoChina-? or RoC-? Or TaiwanRoC-? or TaiwanROC-? (BTW, none of these has ever been made, either, though they are all equally viable, which further suggests the ROC- types wouldn't be remade in the foreseeable future). Similar situations have been discussed in the past with regard to the lies of US-stub (UnitedStates-stub, America-stub, USA-stub, Us-stub, Usa-stub, UnitedStatesofAmerica-stub, UnitedStatesofAmeriica-stub, Unitedstates-stub, ...). Where possible just using one name without redirects is preferable for all stub templates for this reason, unless the redirect is the sort which could form a liely later split into a separate stub type. Grutness...wha? 02:20, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
    - Further note: Some of these problems of ambiguity seem to already be arising -several of the articles using ROC-stub don't refer to the current (Taiwanese) Republic of China at all, but refer to the history of China pre-1947 (in which case, they should be using China-hist-stub. Grutness...wha? 02:33, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
      - That is a lot...Took me a while to read the paragraph :). I got your many points, we should delete them to standardize the stub names. So, we should just put all those "ROC-X-stubs that don't refer to the current (Taiwanese) Republic of China at all" to China-X-stubs then. Like {{ROC-politician-stub}} stubs can be put into {{China-politician-stub}}...etc. - impact F = 06:23, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
        
        I told you there were a lot of reasons (and I am pretty verbose :) As to the ROC ones that aren't taiwan-specific...mmmm...not sure. That would certainly be the current system, and it's the main reason we had plain "China-' types for things like history, since so much of Chinese history is of a time before the currently existing split into PRC and ROC. I'd say that pre-1947 articles should get prrbably get a standard China- type, but I'd certainly be willing to consider alternatives. Grutness...wha? 06:35, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
        
        I think that's a great solution, putting non-taiwan ROC stubs into China-X-stubs. I found a note that someone (I think it was you, Grut, put in PRChina stub category: For articles relating to China in general - including any relating to China before 1949, use {{China-stub}}. Wasn't that an excellent suggestion? Also, I was wondering, why is Taiwan stubs put under PRChina stub cat but not China stub cat?? - impact F = 18:30, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
        
        Note: Should I put {{sfd-t}} in all ROC-x-stubs? - impact F = 19:00, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
        
        Might be a good idea. As to "why is Taiwan stubs put under PRChina stub cat but not China stub cat", I'm not sure exactly where you mean, but the Taiwan- types definitely shouldn't be subtypes of the PRChina- ones. Grutness...wha? 23:36, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
        
        I meant should Cat:Taiwan stubs be under Cat:People's Republic of China stubs? P.S. I put the {{sfd-t}} in all ROC-x-stubs. - impact F = 02:33, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
        
        No, that shouldn't have been in there (and isn't now!) Grutness...wha? 03:10, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
      - I don't care how it is going to be named. And after reading Grutness' arguments it appears that ROChina-stub or RoChina-stub is more logical. The problem with these stub articles is that they are not directly or immediately related to Taiwan, but they are more likely to be taken care of by Taiwan-based Wikipedians or Wikipedians interested in Taiwan matters. For example, mainland Chinese politicians and generals who followed the Kuomintang to Taiwan and retired and died there, or a newspaper that was founded on mainland China and relocated to the island of Kinmen with the Kuomintang. Montemonte (talk) 18:26, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Strong Keep all or keep Template:ROC-stub There is still chances of expanding the articles. I don't object to redirect or anything but I think they will still be used in the future. --98.154.26.247 (talk) 07:32, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
- Of course there's still a chance of expanding the articles. All that's been proposed is the deletion of these templates, which are for exactly the same thing as others which have been in use for years. "Taiwan" is universally used for stubs on Wikipedia, so all that will happen is that ROC-stub will be replaced by the long-standing, correctly-named Taiwan-stub. Same with the other types listed-they'll be replaced with the existing stub templates. Grutness...wha? 19:35, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Keep. Montemonte (talk) 18:26, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

[edit] {{Taiwan-hist-stub}} and {{ROC-hist-stub}}

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was Delete ROC-hist-stub.

Closed on behalf of Xeno.— Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:38, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Delete both of them (both unproposed)?? However {{Taiwan-hist-stub}} can be used in the future... impact F = 23:19, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Delete the ROC one, keep the Taiwan one in upmerged form - but remove the permcat from the template, which shouldn't be there. Grutness...wha? 00:57, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Strongly against your argument: Taiwan is an island; ROC is a country, they do not equate. Additionally, ROC history is huge, especially during the time of mainland rule, from 1912 to 1949, on mainland China. Taiwanese history only has to do with just the island. -- 李博杰 | —Talk contribs email 11:18, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Comment. Please read Grutness' argument above relating to why the name "ROC" is not used. - impact F = 22:33, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

- Comment. ROC-hist-stub change to redirect, see the above comment. - impactF= 01:04, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
  - See response above for numerous reasons not to. Grutness...wha? 02:21, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
    - Agree Check above response for my suggestion. -impact F = 06:23, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Strong Keep All or keep just the Taiwan one. There is still much to expand in Taiwan's history. I see no reason to delete both of them. --98.154.26.247 (talk) 07:28, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

ROC is just as important as Taiwan. Taiwan is just an island X by Y kilometres across, the ROC was a country half the size of Russia from 1912 to 1949, before it fell to the PRC. -- 李博杰 | —Talk contribs email 11:21, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

*Keep both. Montemonte (talk) 18:27, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

[edit] Cat:Taiwan road stubs

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was upmerge. -Mairi (talk) 22:30, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Unproposed, the stub count is at 45, not enough for a stub category. impact F = 23:19, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

First choice would be "try to find 15 more". If that can't be done, then upmerge pre nom. Grutness...wha? 00:57, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
- I found two more and I added the stub temps. 47 is still not enough though. I didn't find any more TW road stubs. - impact F = 01:04, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

NOTE: This wasn't tagged with {{sfd-c}}, so it might be worth waiting a few more days. Grutness...wha? 02:24, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

Contents

[edit] China

[edit] Shao Yu

[edit] Tenfu Tea College

[edit] Pékin Fine Arts

[edit] China Proposed deletions

[edit] Hong Kong Cantonese Slang

[edit] Taiwan

[edit] June 9

[edit] {{ROC-party-stub}}, {{ROC-politician-stub}}, {{ROC-university-stub}}, {{ROC-bio-stub}}, {{ROC-geo-stub}}, and {{ROC-stub}}

[edit] {{Taiwan-hist-stub}} and {{ROC-hist-stub}}

[edit] Cat:Taiwan road stubs