This page is a WikiProject essay on notability. It contains the advice and/or opinions of one or more WikiProjects on how they interpret notability within their area of expertise. It is not a policy or guideline, and editors are free to, but not obliged to follow it during XfD's. WikiProjects are encouraged to write essays on notability that meet or exceed the expectations of notability or the applicable sub-guideline (BIO, ORG, NUMBER, ACADEMICS, and rest of the sub guidelines). Please update the page as needed, or discuss it on the talk page.

[edit] New Proposal

WP:BIO as it currently exists for Athletes (which is the criteria generally cited for Poker Players):

• Athletes:
  • Competitors and coaches who have competed in a fully professional league, or a competition of equivalent standing in a non-league sport such as swimming, golf or tennis.
  • Competitors and coaches who have competed at the highest level in amateur sports (who meet the general criteria of secondary sources published about them).

We would like to close the door on a number of vainity articles defended by the above criteria by limiting it:

• • Competition of equivalent standing in poker is generally limited to the winners of WPT/WSOP/EPT events or Poker Hall of Fame inductees.

[edit] Original Proposal

Wikiproject Poker deems the following events as inherently conveying notable to an individual:

• Winning a WSOP/WSOPE/WPT/EPT event.
• Winning a million dollars in a single event at an established tournament.
• Induction into the Poker Hall of Fame or European Poker Hall of Fame.

Other poker players must be able to establish their notability via secondary sources and the normal guidelines as defined by WP:BIO. Winning other major tournaments (including but not limited to Aussie Millions, USPO, Legends of Poker, LA Poker Classic, Foxwoods) is not in and of itself sufficient notability to warrant an article, but can help establish a player's notability. As most poker tournaments are open events, participating in or "making the money" rarely adds to the notability of a poker player. On-line poker players must be able to establish notability independent of the poker sites they play on and sites that simply track online results.Balloonman (talk) 06:08, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

NOTE: Removed European Poker Hall of Fame per reasons why the stub was nominated for AfD.

Rationale In the past people have tended to use the criteria for athletes as the comparable criteria to be used against Professional Poker Players. This criteria doesn't work for poker players because poker, unlike most sports, can be played by anybody who antes up the buy in. If I have $1,500 I could sign up for a WSOP event and potentially make it to the money. Does that make me notable? No, but a fair number of articles are written with that premise---then the article is taken to AFD and people point to the Athletes criteria for notability. The guidelines above are pretty high ones, that generally anybody who meets them will normally meet BIO in other ways. It is more of a way for us to state that winning a poker tournament does not make you notable. Playing in the main event does not make you notable. The automatic passes for notability are much stricter than used by other projects---especially athletics where participating at the professional level or highest level of amateur competition is enough to get you in.Balloonman (talk) 05:31, 28 November 2007 (UTC)