General Site directory • Editor's index • Image and media copyright • Admins' noticeboard • Incidents • General sanctions • Page protection • Page importation • Bot noticeboard Content Content noticeboard • Biographies of living persons • Ethnic and religious conflicts • Fiction • Fringe theories • Original research • Neutral point of view • Reliable sources • Copyright violations and wide-scale infringements • Spam • Proposed mergers • External links User issues User page help • New user help • Editor assistance • Help desk • Vandalism • Improper usernames • Open proxies • Sockpuppets • Oversight • Long term abuse • ISP reporting • Conflict of interest Noticeboards Edit warring & 3RR • Wikiquette alerts • Arbitration: Requests / Enforcement • Mediation: Formal / Informal • Requests for comment • Requests for feedback • Drawing board

Shortcuts: WP:COI/N WP:COIN

Before posting, determine whether this is the most appropriate place. Articles written about a person, group, club or band by such a person, group, club or band with no assertion of notability can be tagged with {{db-bio}} instead. Obvious cases of corporate vanity can be tagged with {{db-spam}}. Commercial usernames may be reported at WP:UAA. Issues involving the biographies of living persons policy may be more suited to the Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard. Issues with administrators may be more suited to requests for comment on administrator conduct.

Archives

Add new incident reports at the bottom of this page. Sign your post with "~~~~", which translates into a signature and a time stamp.

This noticeboard is for reporting and discussing the application of the Wikipedia:Conflict of interest guideline to incidents and situations where editors may have close personal or business connections with article topics. It is for conflict of interest issues that require outside intervention, such as disputes with tendentious editors and cases where editors are repeatedly adding problematic material over a longer period of time. It is not for simple vandalism, material that can easily be fixed or removed without argument, or non-COI breaches of neutral point of view policy.

COI affected editors may use this board to get help with proposed article changes. Propose changes at the article talk page, and then leave a message here if more neutral editors are needed to establish consensus.

The COI guideline does not require editors with conflicts of interest to avoid editing altogether. An editor who has disclosed a conflict is complying with the guideline when they discuss proposed changes on a talk page, or make non-controversial edits in mainspace consistent with other Wikipedia policies and guidelines.

• Please limit statements to 200 words or less. Long, drawn-out speeches may be ignored.
• If you are discussing the actions of another editor here, please notify them.
• You can tag COI affected articles with {{COI}}.
• You can warn editors about COI concerns with {{subst:uw-coi}}.

All Wikipedia editors are encouraged to help resolve reports of COI editing. More problematic articles can be found in Category:Wikipedia articles with possible conflicts of interest.

When investigating possible cases of COI editing, Wikipedians must be careful not to out other editors. Wikipedia's policy against harassment takes precedence over the COI guideline.

---

To report a possible violation of the Wikipedia:Conflict of interest guideline

• Create a new section with the article name

• Describe the dispute using the following format:

* {{article|article name}} - brief explanation ~~~~ or

* {{userlinks|username}} - brief explanation ~~~~

• Add new entries at the bottom of the page

To close an incident

• Add Template:resolved at the head of the complaint, with the reason for closing and your signature
• Old issues are taken away by the archive bot

Contents 1 Possible autobiographies found by bot 2 Requested edits 3 Super Hero Squad 4 User:Butlerwhite & User:Butlerwhite/ThatSexShop 5 WHDT and WHDT 6 Jenn Brown 7 MondayMEDIA 8 Paid Company Editing W. V. Grant Article 9 User:Rick206/Dynamic Language 10 User:Action grrl 11 Peter Maple 12 Kripalu Center 12.1 COI allegation not supported 12.1.1 Quantified improvements 13 Indie Movies 14 Head writer for BCBGMAXAZRIAGROUP creating and editing articles related to the company 15 User:William M. Connolley and Global Warming 15.1 Investigating conflicts in Scientific opinion on climate change 15.2 Connolley's contributions to Wikipedia 16 User:Addvisors 17 JeffSharlet and The Fellowship (Christian organization) 18 Commonwealth Expedition (COMEX) 19 Dr. Luke 20 User:Yehoishophot Oliver 20.1 Response by Debresser

[edit] Possible autobiographies found by bot

• User:AlexNewArtBot/COISearchResult   This is the large mechanically-generated list of articles having a suspected COI that used to be shown here in full. You are still invited to peruse the list and, if you have an opinion on whether it's a real COI, edit that file directly. When you see a case in that list that needs input from other editors, you may want to create a regular noticeboard entry for it, below.

[edit] Requested edits

• Category:Requested edits.  Editors who believe they have a Conflict of Interest may ask someone else to make edits for them. Please visit this category and respond to one of these requests. Whether you perform it or not, you should undo the {{Request edit}} when you are done to remove the article from the category. Leave a Talk comment for the requestor to explain your decision.

[edit] Super Hero Squad

Marvel Super Hero Squad (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) - The7thCynic and his anonymous persona 71.199.246.246 have already been reported, and threatened with blacklisting, for his efforts to keep a message board he admins in the external links. After the page was protected, he went away, but now he's back again. Alowishous (talk) 03:15, 18 December 2009 (UTC)Alowishous (talk) 03:16, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

This was previously discussed here a couple of months ago. In my opinion, whether or not there is a COI (its not immediately apparent) is irrelevant as the link is inappropriate per WP:ELNO. If someone consistently adds the same link after being warned then they could be blocked for spamming and the website could be blacklisted. Hopefully The7thCynic will realise that they can't add their link to the article and there won't be any further problems. Smartse (talk) 11:41, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Having read the WP:ELNO in detail, i do not believe the link is at all inappropriate. Firstly, I suggest that nothing on there is listed as a hard-fast rule. In fact, it uses the word 'normally', as to imply possibly exceptions. And although it is a link to a forum, considering it DOES "provide a unique resource beyond what the article would contain" AND "contain neutral and accurate material that cannot be integrated into the Wikipedia article due to copyright issues" (listed under Sites to Include) it should fall under that exception. Also consider - as I mentioned before but got misconstrewed as an attack - Wikis common sense:

"...Being too wrapped up in rules can cause loss of perspective, so there are times when it is better to ignore a rule. Even if a contribution "violates" the precise wording of a rule, it might still be a good contribution. Similarly, just because something is not forbidden in a written document, that doesn't mean it's a good idea. The principle of the rules is more important than the letter."

And under that, not only do I suggest the Hasbor Heroes link remain, but also the others that were removed as they are all VERY informative and offer much more up to date and detailed information that can be found here.

There was also an idea that a consenus was made - but I disagree. Those that added the various links back to the page throughout the months obviously considered them useful, even though they might never comment on the talk page. But if all it requires is a consensus to keep the link, I'm sure we can find more than enough people that believe the link(s) should stay.

I would ALSO like to add that it is apparent that the decision to remove the links was based off of a 'resolution' or 'compromise' to the above mentioned 'edit-war' rather than the enforcing of any rules. This 'resolution' was made here by Cameron Scott and conflicts with the rationalion given for the removal of the links.

On a side note, a while back the link was in question (and removed) because registration was required. Shortly afterwards, it was changed to NOT require registration and and the link was determined to be acceptable. Now, years later, after the so-called 'edit war' (which I was NOT a part of - as I only ever added links back, never removed any), apparently its not anymore.

Personally, it seems like a witchhunt OR power hungry editors whose answer to a resolution is the deletion of all.--The7thCynic (talk) 17:37, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Let's be clear about what the problems are here, The7thCynic.

• Ignore All Rules is a critical part of Wikipedia, but misused often, and I believe you are misusing it now. It does not mean that the rules should just be ignored if they get in the way of something you want done. It means that the rules should be ignored if they get in the way of improving the encyclopedia, and/or they don't make sense in a particular case. Generally an appeal to IAR should be accompanied by a very persuasive argument as to why the rules should be ignored, while you've offered nothing except that your opinion is that the link (and others) are good, without anything to back that up.
• You have a clear conflict of interest. Your personal opinion is naturally colored by the fact that you are associated with the site that you want to have linked.
• Forums are very, very, very rarely linked to in any article. I understand that you probably don't have enough experience with various articles on Wikipedia, but it's an almost unheard of exception to allow a discussion forum as an external link. That is because as discussion forums, they offer almost nothing in terms of objective knowledge to an article subject. One of the very few exceptions I can think of would be in an article that is actually about a particularly notable forum, such as 4chan.

You are casually asking for people to make a rare exception to allow a link to a site where you have a clear conflict of interest, against prior discussion that agreed to not allow such, without any compelling reason to back up your request. I hope you see what the unlikelihood of that occurring might be. Also, attacking other editors ("power hungry editors") is more likely to result in sanctions against you, rather than to accomplish your goals, such confrontational attitudes are extremely counter-productive. -- Atama頭 20:24, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Just to add 2 cents... putting the links back IS part of the edit war. There's already been lots of talk about how just because something was done in the past doesn't mean it's right. The links are good, but Wikipedia's not a directory or promotional tool. I can google about a dozen pages on super hero squad but that doesn't mean they should all be included. Look at the Spider-Man page and see that it's got 6 external links and 3 are to Marvel's own sites. There are many more sites out there that talk about Spider-Man, including major ones like Spider-Fan, but don't get included just because they're on topic. And continuing to say that everyone that disagrees with you is power hungry, on a witchhunt, stubborn or stupid doesn't help. It's not persecution, it's trying to apply a consistent standard over Wikipedia. Two cents.Alowishous (talk) 02:44, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

OK, lets deal with one issue at a time.

• COI - I can see where it may appear that there is a conflict, but I assure you there is none. We do not sell anything. We are not worried about members. We are a simply a resource, and specifically for the subject of this page. Some would even say the best resource. And we work with many that edit this article. We work hand in hand with the article as a database. All the links in question do. And unlike the Spider-Man reference, I would argue with Alowishous that you cannot just Google 'super hero squad' and get a dozen pages of useful information. In fact, we could say that information is sparse, thus making these links available even more crucial.

But back to the COI, I can see this is a clear point of contention for you - as it is your main emphasis throughout. But I can easily solve this matter by abandoning that the specific forum I'm associated with get added - though will continue to argue that the others be added back regardless. (Will THAT then be enough to move on from the concept of COI that has apparently clouded much of your opinion of me or for the principle I stand for?)

• Ignore All Rules or Common Sense - The assumption here is that I only request an exception because it's something I want done - which is preposterous. (But I suppose that opinion is based on your belief that there's a COI.) The inclusion of the links IS SOLELY for the improvement of the article as they provide MORE information and sources than the actual article itself, and I have stated so above, as well as stated before. But you suggest that I haven't backed up that statement, so I will humor you:

Consider that almost NONE of this article is sourced. Well, not only do those sites provide pictures and specific details on each and every figure, including articulation and repack/repaint information, but all of the information on the upcoming waves (which are listed here) are all sourced, unlike the article - where it is often suggested to be rumored and falsely removed.

Is that enough?

On a similar note...

• Forums being linked - In the same breath that it says forums should normally be avoided, it also mentions blogs and fansites. And yet I can show you dozens upon dozens of articles that include those - and probably rightfully so. This seems to me like picking and choosing. (And considering the moderating I am questioning here, it doesn't seem very fair to anyone.) But again, with so little information out about this toy line (even the official site is VERY incomplete in comparison to ANY of the links), these links are more than useful. (Is all that persuasive enough argument for common sense? Geeeeeeeez.)

• Edit War - Alowishous, perhaps you missed the start of all of this. Recap: Someone was removing the Rumorbuster link, then another person would come back and add it while deleting the Hasbro Heroes link at the same time, and vice versa. I was not one of those people. Although i would re-add the link, as it was apparently (at that time) done maliciously. So no, adding the link back was NOT part of the Edit War in question. Then as I mentioned, Cameron Scott, suggested that the 'compromise' would be to delete both - but it was never under the premise that it was breaking a rule. Not being part of the original Edit War, and as an observer, I have a problem with that type of moderating.

Speaking of, I also would like to point out how interesting it is that both of you bothered to mention my "power hungry editors" comment (which FYI wasn't a specific attack on anyone, just my observation - but would at best fit the above mentioned moderating - which is not cool) but neglected to comment on the fact that this all started as the lame 'resolution' to an edit war. --The7thCynic (talk) 03:57, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

COI isn't limited to people who make money or who "want" members. The conflict is that you, who cannot be impartial, is saying your materials are the best or are more accurate, more whatever.

Your recap is incorrect and disingenous. The edit war you refer to doesn't happen in the way you suggest. You say that there was malicious removal of your links. That's not what happened.

[[1]] User User:72.71.55.224 removed therumorbuster.com apparently in a fit of vandalism most of which has been undone.

[[2]] user User:shsquad fan adds it back.

[[3]] - user User:98.235.186.116 removes therumorbuster.com

[[4]] - User:Tomson elite returns the site.

[[5]] - user User:98.235.186.116 removes therumorbuster.com and replaces it with your site.

[[6]] - your site is removed by user User:Arachnad

And from there, it looks like you triggered an autoreversion bot when you tried to readd the link as user User:71.199.246.246, and that's when this situation started getting noticed.

And when called upon to explain why 98.235.186.116 was continually removing therumorbuster.com link, [[7]] he says nothing.

Then looking at User:98.235.186.116's history [[8]] who was removing whose (whomever's?) link is obviously the other way around. "(I removed the Rumorbuster link because the site isn't working and if the Hasbro Heroes forum isn't allowed to be a link, the Rumorbuster shouldn't be allowed either)"

Interestingly enough, looking at posts on your site at that time, you can see another admin of your site named X-Fan discussing how the Rumorbuster link isn't working and should be taken out.

So now we have you insisting you're not part of the war, because you're only re-adding your link in, 98.235.186.116 removing their link and replacing it with your link, you claiming to not have a conflict of interest, 98.235.186.116 (who I would bet is this x-fan admin since he basically admits to removing the other site on your site) removing a link solely because if your site isn't included, neither should the other link.

If you had an issue with the link being removed, then the proper course of action was to then ask for reasons and talk it out. Instead you kept adding it, which resulted in more attention, and later you attempted to circumvent the 3RR by using your IP and your screen name when you continued adding it in.

Adding the link back, after it was removed as an inappropriate link, WAS the war, regardless of your view of how malicious you found the enforcement of the rules to be or how you characterize the removal of the links.

Your remaining arguments are without merit. You now say you'll abandon wanting your site back to avoid the conflict of interest. It doesn't work retroactively, so now saying that the Ignore All Rules or Common Sense arguments are preposterous because you don't have a COI is bafflingly illogical.

You claim that because links to fan pages exist on other Wikipedia sites, it's picking and choosing. Not every instance gets caught by editors. This is a big site. Same with speeders and the police. You can't just tell the officer that other people are speeding and so you shouldn't get a ticket. Saying "And considering the moderating I am questioning here, it doesn't seem very fair to anyone" is more proof of this flawed logic. You don't like the result, so it doesn't seem very fair to anyone.

And not all editors see things the same way. That's why there's consensus, and the editors that looked at it said your forum shouldn't belong.

User:Cameron Scott did not really offer scrubbing the links as a compromise, regardless of his wording, because none of the links had a right to belong. All three links fell under the same category of stuff to go. The "compromise" was to enforce the general rules. The compromise, if any, wasn't to satisfy you and the other sites by offering to split the baby as Solomon once offered, but to stop the edit war by getting rid of links that violated the rules in the first place.

Of course, now your argument is that Cameron Scott's resolution, by taking out that which did not belong, is lame. Nobody commented on why you called the editors power mad because it's irrelevant. You didn't like the result of enforcing the rules, therefore the moderating was "uncool" and the resolution was lame and the editors are power hungry.

And now Methinks the lady doeth protest too much.Alowishous (talk) 17:04, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Just to address your comments:

I won't say your recap is disingenous as you said mine was (Which for the record, suggesting I'm lying is really no better than a reference to power hungry editors, is it?) - as I believe you just werent there from the beinginning - but it is still incorrect.

From the Super Hero Squad discussion page: In regards to deleting the Rumorbuster link - "Can we come up with some kind of peaceful resolution to this edit war? I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt 98.235.186.116 but you just keep deleting this link...."(talk) 00:53, 24 October 2009

"More warring, still no talk."Tomson elite 14:04, 28 October 2009

So the warring in question, and even by your own examples, was with the back and forth removal of hasbro heroes and/or Rumorbuster link - not the removal of both.

Then from the COI noticeboard. :

"...User:98.235.186.116 was deleting one site, replacing it with (what is now known to be his) forum. Page was semi-protected for a while. Days pass, edit war continues, User:71.199.246.246 joins in....."Tomson elite (talk) 19:46, 28 October 2009

"Scrub both forums (I've just done so) and blacklist if they persist." --Cameron Scott 19:50, 28 October 2009

"Sounds like a good compromise..."Tomson elite 19:56, 28 October 2009

See the dates? Notice no comments abt the links breaking any rules? See how it was considered a 'compromise' rather than an enforcing? Hmmmmm.....

Now if you're suggesting that AFTER that 'compromise' was made, AFTER the original 'edit War', that my re-adding of the links was part of this NEW issue - then sure. Although I will say that at the time, I thought it was still part of the same foolishness as I was not totally aware of all these various pages of discussion or I would have commented. As proof to that, notice my edit on 20:16, 28 October 2009 where I commented "I even added Rumorbuster back. Stop the foolish editing."

I don't know who 98.235.186.116 is and whether it is or isn't X-Fan really has no bearing to me. Again, I think removing ANY of the links is silly as they are ALL useful to the article. But apparently the COI that you believe I have also sways how you view me in the original 'edit war'.

On another note, you insist its not picking and choosing when dozens of articles break said rule and attempt to mask it with an explaination of how editors can't catch everything. Very well. But it seems more rational that with the sheer number of articles Im referring to, that this particular article is just being targeted and denied the same sort of exception.

Regardless, its apparent that it's all come doen to consensus. And as I was informed Consensus can change.--The7thCynic (talk) 18:19, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

This seems to be getting nowhere. He doesn't have to explicitly mention that all the sites don't belong when it's obvious and previously pointed out. I suggest that your recap was disingenuous because it was wrong, you know it, and the facts support it. You said something to indicate you or your forum was a martyr, that you were being deleted and replaced maliciously. You weren't, however, the other site was apparently. You say whether or not 98.235.186.116 is X-Fan has no bearing on you, but whether or not it is your co-admin on this forum does have bearing on the issue. Then it further hammers home the point of COI, and having one person do the "dirty work" so to speak so the other can have clean hands doesn't make the issue any better. You can characterize my pointing this out as an attack, and you have, but there's no positive spin on you fabricating a story.

You claim to not have been aware of the pages to discuss this, fine, but after consensus against your link, and no, we cannot just forget COI and you still refuse to acknowledge there is one, you then decided to come back and add it anyway, bringing up the same arguments that everyone was wrong. And now you make multiple attempts to "be clear" that once consensus has been reached the links will return.

There isn't an "exception" in place for external links in articles that aren't properly sanitized. There's no "mask" or explanation... it's common sense that not everything can be found all the time. Otherwise, your site would have stayed removed apparently some time ago. Just because now that this issue with this particular page has been identified, it's being closely watched does not mean that you're being persecuted (for doing something you shouldn't be doing) or that other pages have an exemption. It just means this is one problem everyone is aware of, and now can be stopped.Alowishous (talk) 19:15, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

At this point, i may have lost you, except for - "This seems to be getting nowhere."

Now to defend myself: "He doesn't have to explicitly mention that all the sites don't belong when it's obvious and previously pointed out."

I have no idea what youre referring to. I thought I laid it all out for you, apparently I didnt. It is YOU that does not understand the series of events that transpired, not me.

"I suggest that your recap was disingenuous because it was wrong, you know it"

And how is that different that calling me a liar?

"You said something to indicate you or your forum was a martyr, that you were being deleted and replaced maliciously."

Ive suggested that this particular article has been targeted, not any specific link. Why do you continue to insist that I have a particular bias against any other link when I have yet to show one, and in fact, have done the contrary in trying to get it added back various times?

"whether or not it is your co-admin on this forum does have bearing on the issue."

Sure he is, but that doesnt mean I agree, control, or was aware of any of his actions. As I pointed out before with my 10/28 edit and comment, I was against the removal of ANY of the links. I stand by that statement. They are ALL useful.

"having one person do the "dirty work" so to speak so the other can have clean hands"

FYI, this assumption is also extremely offensive.

"You can characterize my pointing this out as an attack, and you have, but there's no positive spin on you fabricating a story."

And it is an attack. But Im not sure what you mean with positive spin. There would be no point in me fabricating any story.

"we cannot just forget COI"

As far as I know, there hasnt been a COI even established. Only possibly by you, who originally placed the issue here in the first place.

"bringing up the same arguments that everyone was wrong."

Dont try and brush off all of my points as simply telling everyone they are wrong. That is far from what Ive done. Instead, why dont you try to reply with something more than strings of subtle attack, as these last recent points dont really add much to the discussions - nor do my responses - but I am instinctively compelled to defend myself. Geeeeez.

"And now you make multiple attempts to "be clear" that once consensus has been reached the links will return."

And? i thought that consensus was the main issue that was keeping them off as it has been thrown in my face numerous times.

"it's common sense that not everything can be found all the time."

As Ive already said, thats your take on it, not mine. For me, its common sense that for the number of rule breaks I see on Wiki on a regular basis, that this article is possibly under higher scrutiny than normal and definitely than necessary. We're talking links here. --The7thCynic (talk) 19:53, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

The links don't belong. They violate WP:ELNO. Even the COI is really secondary to that. They are discussion forums, not places for reliable information. There's no benefit to a reader to direct them to a site like that. This is long-standing Wikipedia consensus, part of an official guideline, and there's no reasoning given to ignore it. You've said before you see blogs and fansites that don't belong... And that's true, I'm sure there are plenty of them in Wikipedia. They also should be removed, with rare exceptions. Just because you see a candy wrapper on a sidewalk, that doesn't mean that you have a right to litter there, it just means that somebody else has left a mess and nobody else has cleaned it up yet. -- Atama頭 20:07, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Agree with Atama above, which is why I'm commenting at the talk page, and not this COI case. Whether or not there's COI is secondary, as the links don't belong regardless of the editor's connection. I would encourage any editor commenting here to also do so at the relevant talk page, as the discussion is oingoing there as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dayewalker (talk • contribs)

Very well - Ill keep the discussion over there. Thank you.--The7thCynic (talk) 20:47, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] User:Butlerwhite & User:Butlerwhite/ThatSexShop

User:Butlerwhite/ThatSexShop (edit|[[Talk:User:Butlerwhite/ThatSexShop|talk]]|history|links|watch|logs): Considering that the spammy userspace draft -- sitting there since 24 Sept -- says that the shop is owned by one "Butler White", I'd say that the COI is clear. --Calton | Talk 12:25, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

It looks like an abandoned draft. Perhaps WP:MfD it? --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 14:09, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

I have created MfD. Johnuniq (talk) 07:29, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] WHDT and WHDT

WHDT (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) - User:WHDT, who claims to be WHDT's "Chief Engineer", keeps reverting to a highly dubious version of the article that claims, for example, that WHDT is broadcasting a signal (FCC reports as well as OR show it isn't), and that it is carried by (or recently that it has been ordered to be carried by, implying it is, with nothing showing it isn't) Dish Network. I'm not the only user who is seeing these claims as problematic, and User:WHDT has been told the COI nature of the edits are problematic. There has been one, short, exchange on the Talk: page but User:WHDT's responses both avoided the central specific issue (evidence that WHDT is actually on the air) and were, as with his reverts, "somewhat discourteous".

I'm sure User:WHDT has useful information he or she could add to the article, but at this point it appears, to me at any rate, that commercially WHDT has a fairly large interest in disguising the fact the channel doesn't broadcast an ATSC channel at this time in at least one of the areas it has a license, and is abusing Wikipedia to maintain this fiction.

At this point I'm giving up, I'm walking away from the article as I find monitoring and reverting extremely tedious and a waste of my time, but I'd appreciate someone who actually has the power to force WHDT to read the guidelines and stick to them could actually do so. 66.149.58.8 (talk) 13:30, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

I've reported the username to WP:UAA as it looks like it is either a role account or someone claiming to be linked to WHDT. I agree that their edits are definitely of concern, thanks for posting. Smartse (talk) 16:13, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

They're been blocked because of their username, so the problem is slightly fixed but I guess that they will probably return with a different username. I'm not sure what else there is to do now as the article has already been fixed up by 66.149.58.8. I guess we wait and see, hoping that they will take note that their edits were inappropriate. Smartse (talk) 16:46, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for taking care of this. I do think the user could probably be a constructive participant (and has made some constructive edits in the past) so I'm not overly happy with having to bring this up. --66.149.58.8 (talk) 18:15, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately while I said I'd walk away I made the mistake of checking the page again this evening, and he's back under a new nick doing the same stuff. Like I said, I'm going to try to walk away from this (I'm not going to sit here reverting his claims over and over again), but if someone could explain the WP:COI policy to him in a way he'll understand then I think it would be a good idea. I'm not sure what to do to fix the page, beyond possibly argue for its deletion. WHDT has one noteable aspect, it was supposedly the US's first commercial digital station, but otherwise it really hasn't done much of note and would normally be a footnote in, say, an article about the history of digital television in the US. --66.149.58.8 (talk) 02:18, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

The new name is "Marksteiner", and the owner of the station is "Günter Marksteiner". The aggressive behavior of the editor as well as aggressive language on the talk page of the article are both very troubling. The article itself probably merits inclusion per WP:BCAST whether or not it was the first commercial digital station in the US. -- Atama頭 23:45, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Marksteiner (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) has also been blocked, I've asked the admin to check whether this was right as WHDT was told they could edit using a different username when they were blocked. Having done a bit of searching it does seem possible that the information in the article at present is incorrect. There is a NYT article and another article that have both been published this year that mention the channel. This would contradict the current version which states that they have been off air for two years. If this is correct then it makes it more reasonable as to why Marksteiner and WHDT made the edits that they did. I'm not entirely certain what action to take now though! Smartse (talk) 12:23, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Just noticed the NYT article is actually from 2001 despite gnews saying it is published today! Smartse (talk) 12:32, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Jenn Brown

Jenn Brown (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) Hi. It would be lovely if anybody who works COI issues wanted to add this article to their watchlists, because I think it's a trainwreck waiting to recur. It was listed at WP:CP for copyright problems, and in the course of cleaning it up I realized that the article has almost certainly been controlled since at least April 2009 by the subject or her agency, Berk Communications (see User talk:BerkCommunications; [9]). Mostly IP contributors have repeatedly pasted promotional material from her website and resisted efforts by outsiders to remove such encyclopedic text as "Brown has a carefree nature that entices viewers to follow her on her many bold and electrifying adventures." All of this has been wiped out by the copyvio cleanup, which removed the last 66 edits from the article (and I only added back content that seemed neutral and copyvio clear...which wasn't much), but this stealth advertising campaign had been conducted for months. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 14:01, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

The article has been properly sanitized. I wasn't sure what you were talking about until I looked at the deleted edits for the article (I'm glad I can do that kind of thing now). A definite problem, we have promotional conflicts of interest combined with a BLP and copyright violations. The promotional editing has been somewhat sporadic, with the latest occurring on December 4th, so it's difficult to justify protection at this point but if it resumes at a high volume then I'd recommend semiprotection (or do it myself). -- Atama頭 19:10, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] MondayMEDIA

MondayMEDIA (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) - This article was created by somebody with the username mondaymedia (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log). Furthermore, he or she has been active in creating links towards that article, and also external links towards MondayMEDIA's website on a number of pages. Some of it seems excessively promotional to my novice eyes, but I would appreciate some feedback in this. Grayfell (talk) 07:52, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Definitely promotional. User is blocked for username problem. There are only a few external links left and they are possibly ok, so I left them. Please report if process continues. Johnuniq (talk) 03:24, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Some of the added links are ok, some are spam. I removed a few. If anyone wants to go through the user contribs and check the rest that would be a good thing. Rees11 (talk) 13:40, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

• JonMonday (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

In addition to the suggestive user name, this user has (I think) admitted to having a COI here: User talk:Rees11 "I added information about two audio CDs of lectures given by Aldous Huxley that are ... licensed from the Vedanta Society ... my own 40 year association with the Vedanta Society ..." I will point him to the COI guidelines. Rees11 (talk) 21:06, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

• Jon Monday (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Since MondayMEDIA and JonMonday seem to be the same user (see User talk:Mondaymedia), and assuming JonMonday is Jon Monday, it looks like the user has also created an autobiography. Rees11 (talk) 21:20, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Paid Company Editing W. V. Grant Article

W. V. Grant (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) Earlier, an SPA Superedit09 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) removed quite a bit of negative information on the W. V. Grant article, including his arrested for tax evasion and a section of criticism. I reverted the removal of unsourced information, and commented on the talk page explaining. I also informed the editor about the conflict of interest policy, and advised him the best way to make changes on an article that you have a personal involvement with is to suggest them on the talk page, and gain consensus.

They've reverted [10], and responded. As per this edit [11], the editor admits they are with a company contacted by the subject to clean up their wikipedia article. Not only is the sourced tax evasion material gone, somehow the article doesn't even appear to be in the same font. I'm not even sure how that could happen.I'll be off and on wiki for the next few days, so I'm bringing it here for more eyes. Thanks in advance. Dayewalker (talk) 04:03, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

UPDATE: I just noticed their post on the talk page also contains a legal threat ("Legal action is prepared to be taken if this matter can not be resolved.") Since I set this off by reverting, if someone else would warn them, it would probably go over better. Dayewalker (talk) 04:22, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

• I left a separate warning, as the material they were introducing was unreferenced and inappropriate (whether or not there was a COI issue). I have not addressed the matter of a legal threat. hamiltonstone (talk) 04:31, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

I left an NLT message at User talk:Superedit09 and will notice any reply. Johnuniq (talk) 07:46, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

I wouldn't fall to hard for the claims of their not understanding what was going on. It's a bit odd that they'd use the full syntax of [[ and | tweaks in order to customize their signature on the article talk page. Actually I thought it was a different user that had posted first before. Not impossible but still an uncommon thing. I also worked backwards and saw a few sock-looking accounts (50/50 shot I'd say) but since it might take a few hours I'll have to do it this evening. Socks, but not co-op edits even if proven, so resolvable. Want to add a general note for anyone browsing-- the IP that swooped in with edits on some talk pages of persons involved here I can't see related in any way to this matter. It and another IP at roughly the same time were snapping onto edits that would have been directly off the top of the recent changes log and the new user log, and there happened to accidentally be a few crosses at the time... both have been blocked since. ♪ daTheisen(talk)

Oh, and ask the legal matters be stricken? It is far more a rant than any pointed threat so it's not terribly concerning to run off to ANI. They have their final warning so it's an obvious reporting next time. Has anyone actually made an attempt to talk to the user? Their posts on the article talk page are detailed and well-written, but it needs to be stated before any possible sanctions are given that almost every word of them are 100% contrary to Wikipedia policy. Especially the assertion of placing "right" information being okay without source if they know it's "right", and that it trumps "wrong" things with an infinite number of references. Guidelines and every other fiber of being in Wikipedia makes WP:PROVEIT very clear and a nice summary of WP:N, V and RS at the same time. Really nasty sense of WP:OWN too, with argument made based on length of time spent on writing about the person. Since I wasn't there to watch it develop, I'll leave it to any of the editors involved to decide a next action. It's possible to make a balanced article with such accounts... if they're willing to be cooperative. ♪ daTheisen(talk) 14:03, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

The standard action to clear legal threats has been taken; indefinite block until the threat is retracted. Until then this editor won't be causing any trouble under this account. -- Atama頭 19:11, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] User:Rick206/Dynamic Language

Rick206 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) - While seeking feedback for his work in progress, it was brought to Rick's attention that he had the same name as the Vice President of the company. This in turn sparked interest in a possible COI. Rick posted on my talk page and asked for help on the matter, and I came here to seek some more opinions in hopes that this matter is resolved peacefully and without bias. Airplaneman ^talk 17:28, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

I'd like to assume good faith, and if they claim to not be the same Rick as the VP of the company, I suppose that he isn't. Although as a resident of the greater Seattle area myself, I know that 206 happens to be the area code for Seattle, so the chosen username still screams COI to me; also, the personal way in which the article is written suggests an employee of the company or a person otherwise affiliated. I'm glad that the editor is communicative and shows a willingness to comply with our policies and guidelines, but the company just doesn't seem notable enough for inclusion in the first place. My suggestion to Rick is that if he is interested in editing Wikipedia that he find some other way to contribute. Someone who is communicative, polite, and has decent writing skills is a very welcome addition to the project and there are millions of articles that can use his help. -- Atama頭 19:20, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

I remember this. I was involved in trying to protect it when the last user came along, but we all just gave up in the end, nobody able to help out (I could have Wikified it, but I didn't see the point if the rest of it couldn't be fixed and would therefore be deleted anyway). --Thejadefalcon^{Sing your song}_{The bird's seeds} 03:57, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] User:Action grrl

• Action grrl (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

Action grrl appears to be a single purpose account promoting the work of action movie director J.A. Steel. It appears they may also have strayed into copyright violation with Denizen (2010 film). Can someone please take a look? I don't have the time to get involved in another issue at the moment. Thanks. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 17:35, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

This is a tough one. I have a strong hunch as to the identity of the editor, but I care not to voice this to avoid outing them (her?). If my hunch is correct, there are some strong COI concerns with this editor, but absent any self-identification the best thing to do is assume that this is just a fan of Steel. The copyright concerns seem to have been addressed, and despite my initial impressions both the actress and the film seem to meet our notability guidelines. I'm not sure what is actionable, but the report itself is certainly warranted. -- Atama頭 21:26, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

The user has simply replaced one copyvio with another (see here) and is shining you on. Sorry, I just don't have the time to deal with slipperiness like this right now, but I will at least AfD the article. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 03:11, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for all of the help making the articles better, the guidance on links and the references (the copyright issue). It is a team effort and I appreciate the professionalism! :)

I am a fan of JA Steel, JD Disalvatore, Dreya Weber (A Marine Story) and other strong women in Film.

I am grateful to be a part of Wikipedia and welcome the feedback. Action grrl (talk) 01:27, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm glad that you've replied here, AG. I do have some suggestions to help you along at Wikipedia, take them or leave them as you like.

• If you do have some personal connection to anyone or anything you're editing about, that is not forbidden. We don't have hard-and-fast rules that prevent you from doing so. We're only trying to identify such connections to be "on the lookout" for deliberate promotion (which I don't think you've done) or unintentional bias (which anyone can do without meaning to).
• It's best to acknowledge such connections if you do have them. Doing so will help other editors know where you're coming from, and prevent people from assuming bad motives on your part if such connections are "revealed".
• YOU ARE NOT COMPELLED TO GIVE PERSONAL INFORMATION. I don't want to make that look like "shouting" but I wanted to make it very clear. You don't have to tell anyone who you are, or give any personal information you aren't comfortable with. We have policies against people who try to dig up personal info about editors, and I always suggest that people think twice before they volunteer it. There are a lot of dangerous people on the Web, and Wikipedia certainly has its share. Risking your personal safety for an encyclopedia is definitely not worth it.
• There are some indications that you might have a conflict of interest. Your edits are almost all related to JA Steel, her movies, and people associated with her movies (like Jessica Bair). That's not against the rules, or even discouraged; everyone is drawn to articles on subjects they're interested in (I know I am). But that still invites questions, if you can understand. In addition, you've stated on your user talk page that you actually spoke with J.A. Steel, which lends more weight to such suspicions. I only say this to explain why the COI concerns were raised in the first place, I don't see anything wrong with any of your edits myself.
• You have a lot of enthusiasm for the subjects you write about. That's a good thing, Wikipedia needs people who want to create and expand articles. Just be sure to not let that enthusiasm go too far, be sure to listen to criticism and concerns from other editors, and remember that everything here is a collaboration (not a solo project) and you'll be fine.

If you ever have questions please let me know, thank you. (Oh yeah, you might want to check out one or more Wikiprojects, where you can either ask for or give help, such as WP:FILM, WP:LGBT, or WP:ACTOR.)-- Atama頭 03:12, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Atama,

Thanks so much for the guidance and insight. I know most of the Lesbians in Hollywood that are in the entertainment industry. I've found that they are under-represented on Wikipedia, as they are in the film industry itself. I would like to continue to contribute edits and articles in this genre, that is indeed near and dear to my heart.

On my first article, I was criticized for not enough links coming into the article, so I tried to prevent that this time and apparently overdid it.

I have no intention to violate copyright, and edits are most helpful and welcome. It was my understanding that press releases are in public domain for adaptation in articles. Again, I welcome any input.

This has been quite an arduous experience, and I appreciate you taking the time to mentor me and collaborate in the spirit of Wikipedia.

Action grrl (talk) 06:23, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Atama,

Learning from my recent experiences, I proposed two articles on my talk page to a gentleman (Chris) in Germany who offered to assist me navigate Wikipedia and write articles better.

There is no article on one of the most loved and award winning Lesbian movies of all time, The Gymnast, staring Dreya Weber, who did the choreography for the artist Pink! at a recent award ceremony. I've asked for his thoughts on how to craft an article about this beloved movie of our community. The Gymnast at the Internet Movie Database.

I would also like to do an article on the award-winning filmmaker Alexandra Kondracke, who is directing the new Girltrash!: All Night Long film and was a writer/producer for The L Word. She has a long career in Hollywood, but no Wikipedia article. Alexandra Kondracke at the Internet Movie Database.

I would appreciate your help and collaboration, as you have time.

I know both Dreya and Alexandra in Hollywood, and am grateful for your guidance.

Thanks,

Action grrl (talk) 06:52, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

I can't help but notice that J.A. Steel happens to be in "Girltrash: All Night Long". Delicious carbuncle (talk) 15:08, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Very cool. Perhaps you can add it to her Filmography?

A nice gentlemen, Chris (クリス • フィッチュ), set up these two workshops for me to develop and grow:

User:Action grrl/workshop/The Gymnast

User:Action grrl/workshop/Alexandra Kondracke

You are most welcome to participate. It is clear I can learn a lot from your experience and expertise.

Thanks --Action grrl (talk) 16:52, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

You are most welcome! It would be fantastic if you could read WP:AUTOBIO and WP:COI and maybe think a bit about those guidelines! You seem to be saying that you know a lot of the people whose articles you are editing and those guidelines will come in handy for you! Looking forward to working with you again soon! Delicious carbuncle (talk) 17:53, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, the links are very helpful. The Lesbian community in Hollywood is very small and all the gals know each other. It is the nature of living and working in an environment where you are a scant minority. Having experts like you and Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) provide oversight, suggestion, guidance and edits is much appreciated. I am committed to the WP:AUTOBIO and WP:COI guidelines, and appreciate all who have reviewed and edited my contributions to ensure the integrity of Wikipedia. I look forward to seeing you again in a workspace. This as been quite an experience. I will focus on the workspaces Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) created, for more practice in a safe and collaborative environment, where we can publish articles in concert. Action grrl (talk) 18:10, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Peter Maple

Peter Maple (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) - This article - largely advertising - is being edited by Maplep (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) who claims to be the subject, KewQuorum (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) who is providing citations to a website of the same name and JamesPeters1980 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) who is a single purpose account for this subject. Each have been warned about their conflict of interest, but continue to remove maintenance tags from the article, forming a false consensus on the talk page that, between them, they have solved the problems by providing links to blogs and LinkedIn and other unreliable sources. JamesPeters1980 (talk · contribs) and KewQuorum (talk · contribs) are pretty obviously the same user. ⬅ ⚠ Redvers dashing thru the snow ⚠ 14:32, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm opening up a sockpuppet investigation. I believe that the three editors here are the same person (who is probably Peter Maple, per Maplep who self-identified). Using three accounts to create a false consensus is a clear violation of WP:SOCK. The Peter Maple article itself does not seem to meet our inclusion guidelines, and should probably be deleted. -- Atama頭 20:50, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

The case is open at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/KewQuorum for anyone who wishes to comment. -- Atama頭 21:09, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Kripalu Center

Kripalu Center (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) - Article was originally an advertisement, IMO, and an interested editor fixed much of that. However, now it is slanted oddly: simple non-profit organization replaced with long negative-slant explanation... 2008 revenue being hammered into sentence 1, news that profits are off, news that staff are being cut, news that pay to executives is going up, news of scandals, award for "best spa" removed as minor and old. Editor appears intimately familiar with nicknames of staff, other detailed workings. I am withdrawing from the article, again, but I fear other eyes are needed on it as there have been fairly grave wp:BLP issues, and I don't feel I can contribute usefully at this time. One editor in a previous wp:NPOVN section I started disagreed with my interpretation of events, by the way, saying the article was reasonably neutral/balanced.- Sinneed 16:21, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm glad you brought this here, and I totally understand withdrawing from the article. Looking at the history of the article, and Calamitybrook's talk page, I see a long, drawn-out dispute between you two. The editor has had a turbulent past, judging from their talk page, and their continued involvement with the article should be questioned. Some of the arguments made by Calamitybrook on the article's talk page are troubling, such as the suggestion that notability should be based on how nice the center looks in the landscape(?!). -- Atama頭 21:42, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

I regard conflicts of interest as unethical. Editor says it's because I "appear intimately familiar with staff nicknames;" what he means is the yogic titles of president and vice president, as listed prominently on company's Web page.

I have no personal or professional interest in the topic of article. To suggest otherwise, because I "know staff nicknames" and have done research, is simply inaccurate.

For so simple and brief an article, there are many citations concerning "detailed workings," most of which are available on line.

On talk page, plz note that a different ed. recently suggested that the article had too positive a slant, while a third ed found it neutral. What ever. Question here is Conflict of Interest.

A 160,0000 sq-ft building in the woods indeed affects a landscape enshrined in Amer Lit. by N. Hawthorne, E. Wharton et al. and now part of a federal forest reserve. This "troubling argument" however, is not part of article.

Award for "Best Spa" from "Self Magazine" is 10 years old and not the Nobel Prize. I replaced with note that center is subject of many travel articles in general interest newspapers, magazines. Not sure how best to cite this easily verified fact.

Calamitybrook (talk) 16:12, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

I'll try to address each of your points individually. What you regard a conflict of interest to be is irrelevant, when we talk about them we're talking specifically about the guideline at WP:COI. That may differ from some outside definition of what constitutes a conflict of interest, or yours, but you should familiarize yourself with that guideline if you haven't yet.

You're either grossly misinformed or being deliberately disingenuous in your statement about staff nicknames. John Carter previously mentioned that you referred to people as nicknames like "Gurudev", which is not even close to the "yogic titles of president or vice president". This misstatement of facts is troubling.

Whether or not the argument about notability is or is not part of the article isn't relevant. You offered it as evidence of notability, dismissing the usual argument that significant coverage in independent reliable sources should be used to determine notability. I can accept that people have different opinions of what should constitute notability, but is troubling when combined with other concerns about your editing behavior at the article.

You replaced a verified, sourced statement for an award with a vague, unsupported weasel word statement (if you don't know what weasel words are, don't be offended, just see the link). You use a Google search result as a reference for that, even though that is never acceptable as a reliable source.

Overall, I think you've been damaging this article a piece at a time, violating numerous policies and guidelines in the process, and in defiance of editors who have been trying to tell you what you're doing wrong. Really, I think it's best for you to avoid the article entirely. -- Atama頭 20:29, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] COI allegation not supported

But this is a discussion of conflict of interest allegation...

So-called evidence of conflict of interest is entirely limited to statement that I am "intimately familiar with staff nicknames" and other "inner workings."

There are about 400 staff. Nicknames could be "Jack" "Jill" etc. Don't know whether any have nicknames, nor is reason provided that I do.

Two executives (exclusively) have their yogic names posted on company Web site.

This yoga practice is apparently analogous to that of of Catholic monks and nuns, who take new names when they reach some stage in their religious careers. "Mother Teresa" for example, is not a "nickname" as should be reasonably obvious (though she was originally named Agnesë Bojaxhiu).

There is nothing "intimate" about my familiarity with topic. However, I didn't object when the names were removed.

All "inner workings" described in article are derived from verfiable online sources, through which I gained non-intimate familiarity, which of course, suggests non COI.

Since the COI tag is transparently unsupported, unsupportable and simply FALSE, I've properly removed it.

[edit] Quantified improvements

Here is article before I contributed [[12]] when there were six sources and ten footnotes -- (and text was mostly all just culled, wholesale, from "company" Web site).

Currently has about 20 sources, about 30 footnotes, and is of necessity therefore more balanced and somewhat more detailed. All of these additions, were added by myself. One or two are debatable, though not challenged as of now. Most of added sources are major newspapers, or government sources.

The easily verifiable fact that Kripalu over time, has been subject of sustained (though almost entirely superficial) coverage in national travel press, includes, supercedes and legitimately replaces a single reference to a decade-old magazine item, a so-called award, by Self Magazine editors, which in isolation, is obsolete and not a particularly significant bit of information.

Yes I removed a footnote regarding Self Magazine editors' award, and I accept that my general reference to much wider google news search results may be imperfect verification of coverage, but a complete bibliography of these many, various and mostly rather trivial "happy talk" articles would seem excessive for such an innocuous and simple observation.

Thanks for useful input about my various policy violations and my damage to article. Sinneed has repeatedly made constructive suggestions that I must be banned from Wikipedia, because I focus on his nearly endless accusations this regard, rather than content of article.

Yet he has comparatively little to say on content, focusing significantly on my "conflict of interest."

I've nearly tripled available reliable sourcing and vastly improved the thing -- while his posting seem quantitatively much more personally focused (without sourcing, evidence or shred of acceptable reasoning) on me.

As there is less and less I can do to improve article, so will probably in some degree, take your advise and make fewer edits and add few additional sources to what is simply, NOT a very complex topic.

Calamitybrook (talk) 22:27, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Indie Movies

• Indie Movies (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) - See archive. It's still going on. I'm going through and tagging them, but this is getting annoying now. --Thejadefalcon^{Sing your song}_{The bird's seeds} 16:59, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

• 70.147.45.179 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log) - this IP has a very similar edit history to Indie Movies. Smartse (talk) 20:13, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

No one had given them a COI warning or drawn their attention to this or the previous thread. As Atama stated before it is a pretty clear case of self promotion. I would urge Indie Movies to desist from creating more articles about these non-notable films that are all produced and sold by Maverick Entertainment Group. I'm going to have to warn them and if it continues they could be blocked. Smartse (talk) 17:16, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

My apologies. I've only just discovered there was a COI template just now. I'll make sure to use that in the future. I will admit that some of the films I am unsure about tagging, say, this one for example. --Thejadefalcon^{Sing your song}_{The bird's seeds} 17:23, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

He's readded Natasha (film) and now just did the same with Bad Reputation (film) (another one I'm unsure about) and still doesn't understand that maybe having most of his articles be submitted for deletion and being discussed here means something is wrong. --Thejadefalcon^{Sing your song}_{The bird's seeds} 17:46, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

No worries about the lack of template, you should always notify someone if you post about them on a noticeboard though (Don't worry though as hardly anyone does, despite it being in the instructions at the top). I've checked the couple that I PRODed and none of them seemed to be notable as far as I could tell from a google news search. London Betty looks the same to be honest the number of google hits isn't the best indicator but there are only 3000 for ""london betty" film" so it doesn't look very notable. I've level 3 warned them as they've carried on despite being warned and being informed of this. Smartse (talk) 18:58, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

I noticed that all the plot sections in the articles are copyvios of the webpages they reference too. Smartse (talk) 19:07, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

I noticed that too (mentioned in the last thread as well), but I couldn't be bothered to do anything about it like you have. When I first encountered this user, I once tagged an article as G12 but it got declined because the person who came along didn't think it worthwhile to delete it because of it. Since there is no speedy deletion criteria for non-notable films (there really needs to be), I've had to resort to prodding. --Thejadefalcon^{Sing your song}_{The bird's seeds} 19:14, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

I sort of dropped the ball on this. I planned on checking the articles against web sites to see if I could identify copyright violations; my gut tells me that much of the content in those articles was lifted either from some fan/review site, or an official site related to the films. Smartse has verified that much the material in these articles has been copied, but I think the best solution is a mass AfD. These articles are clearly related, created/expanded by the same person(s), and share the same issues. One advantage of AfD over PROD or CSD is that it inhibits recreation in ways that the other deletion methods don't; either the original AfD result must be overturned in WP:DRV or the recreated articles must differ significantly from the deleted versions and/or address the issues brought forth in the AfD discussion. -- Atama頭 20:37, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

No worries. I've started three AfDs for the ones which had the prod removed and, just to be on the safe side, an SPI. (sighs) Should I start working on AfDing all of the others, prod or not? I'll do them, since I'm the original reporter. --Thejadefalcon^{Sing your song}_{The bird's seeds} 20:50, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

I saw the SPI while I was filing one for a different user on this page (see Peter Maples above), but I don't think that will go anywhere. Editing with multiple accounts isn't disallowed on the encyclopedia, on its own (though disclosing alternate accounts is strongly encouraged), and editing without being logged in is definitely allowed (people do it all the time by accident). Sockpuppetry is only actionable when you can also show violations related to the sockpuppetry. (Using a sock to edit while your main account is blocked, casting multiple votes in an AfD, pretending to form consensus among multiple editors, etc.) -- Atama頭 21:14, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

← I don't know... part of me thought that it was an attempt to cast suspicion off his main account. Right now, I'm either assuming bad faith or someone who doesn't pay attention that something is wrong with the pages, not sure which. Anyway, the first AfD has links to all the others now. --Thejadefalcon^{Sing your song}_{The bird's seeds} 00:46, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Head writer for BCBGMAXAZRIAGROUP creating and editing articles related to the company

See User:Acuffrose. This relates to the articles Max Azria and Lubov Azria and also to the copyvio problems, although they are not a matter for this page. I'll notify the editor and then I'm off to bed. Dougweller (talk) 22:19, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Not sure if this resolves the issue, but the articles have been deleted. -- Atama頭 02:44, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Hi Doug, Can you help me out with this? I will do whatever I need to do to keep the listing as neutral as possible and keep in line with Wikipedia standards. However now both articles have been deleted. This is particularly alarming for the Max Azria one-- his article has been up there for a long time and was not started by us. I simply updated the photo, fixed some formatting and added the list and descriptions of the brand encompassed by the BCBGMAXAZRIAGROUP company. This brings his article in line with those of other, similar fashion personalities like Ralph Lauren, Tom Ford and Tommy Hilfiger. I don't understand why the article was full-on deleted like that. As for the one about Lubov Azria-- she is our creative director and a public personality in fashion just like Marc Jacobs or Phoebe Philo. She has become more public in the past 18 months, and there is very little information about her available publicly. Creating a page for her and updating the page for Max was done in response to press inquires. Please let me know what I need to do to get both pages back up. Thank you so much for your help!Acuffrose (talk) 20:22, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

The proper venue is WP:DRV, which is the deletion review board. Or you can talk to Orange Mike, the administrator who deleted the articles, to ask him why he did so and to ask how you could help prevent the articles from being deleted in the future if you were to recreate them. -- Atama頭 20:33, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

An earlier version of the article on Max, who has a good case for notability, has been restored, with the COI edits of Acuffrose omitted. There is no case for separate notability for Lubov Aria, his wife. It should be noted for future reference that the article on Max has a bad history of COI editors, including User:Roseorchid, self-described as "assistant manager for Max Rave"; the IP 169.234.101.48; and User:BCBGMAXAZRIAGROUP. --Orange Mike | Talk 20:54, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Acuffrose: are you the editor who formerly edited as User:Roseorchid and described her/himself as "an assistant manager for Max Rave"? Are you the editor who formerly edited as User:BCBGMAXAZRIAGROUP? --Orange Mike | Talk 20:43, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] User:William M. Connolley and Global Warming

[edit] User:Addvisors

Editors

• Addvisors (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)
• 24.234.226.155 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

Articles

• Andrew Sasson (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)
• The Harmon Hotel and Spa (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)
• CityCenter (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

User:Addvisors recently created the article Andrew Sasson about a Las Vegas nightclub entrepreneur (said article is now listed at WP:Articles for deletion/Andrew Sasson). While researching the subject to try to improve the article, I ran across Addvisors, whose website says they are "a Las Vegas SEO and Google Qualified Adwords agency, specializing in online marketing." The website also says that their client, "The Light Group" (Sasson's company) has hired them to "generate more website traffic to increase and attract new clientele seeking VIP nightclub services, reservations, private parties, and table service in Las Vegas."

The user has also recently edited The Harmon Hotel and Spa and CityCenter, two other projects of The Light Group and Sasson. Dori ❦ (Talk ❖ Contribs ❖ Review) ❦ 00:15, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

I've indef-blocked as a spam username. The fact that they are hired to spam websites means that we can suspend good faith in their case. -- Atama頭 00:49, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the fast work! Dori ❦ (Talk ❖ Contribs ❖ Review) ❦ 03:40, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] JeffSharlet and The Fellowship (Christian organization)

Could someone look into the edits of JeffSharlet (talk · contribs) at The Fellowship (Christian organization). If the account is accurately named, he's the author of the book The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power, which is used heavily as a source for that article. The issue here is the heavy reliance of that source on the article, often by him directly, in such a way that makes it look as though he is promoting his own book and his own viewpoint at that article, to the exclusion of all other sources. He removes references to any source which differs from his own conclusions, or is critical of them, see this edit for an example of removing references to works not his own. There are also several other SPA accounts that work on that article which rely heavily on Sharlet's book exclusively, often misrepresenting it in ways that overextend Sharlet's conclusions with regard to the association of political figures with the group. Something needs to be looked at here. --Jayron32 05:36, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

This is quite a tricky case. It appears that the main issue with it is that JeffSharlet has been arguing about whether or not an article that comments about his book on this organisation should be included in the source. The edit that Jayron32 has linked to seems to be the only problematic edit however and he has edited the talk page more so than the main article. That said taking a quick look it does seem as though an article in Newsweek should be included in the article and if it comments on a major source used in the article then the views may be necessary to meet achieve a NPOV. I noticed that he has argued it is an opinion piece and should therefore not be included but this is not a valid argument as long as the article makes it clear that it is an opinion piece and not fact. I'm not willing to agree that he removes any sources which disagree with him though, considering only one such edit has been made.

On a side is there not a system through WP:OTRS by which people can prove that they are in fact the person that their username suggests they are? If this is the case then JeffSharlet really needs to demonstrate this is the case. Smartse (talk) 20:44, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

It also appears user 24.61.42.123 is Jeff Sharlet not logged in, judging by his comment removing the Newsweek article again. He has made some additions to the Fellowship page and his own page on wikipedia. 74.248.102.8 (talk) 14:42, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Commonwealth Expedition (COMEX)

Commonwealth Expedition (COMEX) (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) - New editor Cbrownsyed (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) has been adding large amounts of unwikified text to Commonwealth Expedition (COMEX), which, when put into Google come out as being from here. I have reverted. When challenged, the editor replied The text entered is from the Proposal for the Green Pennant awards, of which I am the co-author with Kevin Lacy and Lionel Gregory. No images were included. I have warned about CoI issues, but this could use extra eyes as the unwikified text is not really suitable for Wikipedia. ⇦REDVERS⇨ 15:12, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Dr. Luke

• 76.166.239.243 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)
• Dr. Luke (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) - a user has been reverting my expansion of this article, and then left me a message on my talk page about representing the subject of the article, having privacy concerns with my additions, and looking into legal options to keep info from being added to the article. My sources include a couple of bios published by music equipment manufacturers, and a magazine article. I'd appreciate broader input on any conflict of interest issues. dissolve^talk 04:37, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] User:Yehoishophot Oliver

• Yehoishophot Oliver (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

assisted at the present time primarily by

• Zsero (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

and

• Debresser (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

User Yehoishophot Oliver (talk · contribs), proudly going by his real name spends his time flooding Wikipedia with any number of pro-Chabad POV articles, even creating obvious fluff pieces and POV forks, in violation of WP:NOTADVERTISING a clear-cut violation of WP:COI because he can be found as a spokesman for Chabad online, such as here "Tamim Yehoshafat Oliver reminded everyone..." see his own prophile on Blogger and the FIVE pro-Chabad blogs he runs, and the over 5000 Google hits for "Yehoishophot Oliver" speaks for itself. His work is welcome, but judging by his many pro-Chabad contributions in light of his unquestioning open public adherence to the Chabad messianic movement and its ideology brings into play enormous questions of WP:COI that states: "Do not edit Wikipedia to promote your own interests, or those of other individuals or of organizations, including employers, unless you are certain that a neutral editor would agree that your edits are in the best interest of Wikipedia" -- and lately several knowledgeable editors in the Judaica section have nominated some of his pro-Chabad propaganda articles for deletion and questioning his neutrality in the subject of Chabad on Wikipedia. Some kind of oversight is needed with basic warnings and guidelines because he is also aided by some other pro-Chabad editors who violate WP:NOTBATTLEGROUND and WP:WAR when questioned or confonted for their pro-Chabad bias. IZAK (talk) 03:41, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

For the record: I am not anti-Chabad by any means. I began as a Wikipedia editor seven years ago, and devoted some time to beginning the most important articles concerning Chabad and its seven rebbes, here: I began the article on Chabad, 30 December 2002; on the 1st Rebbe in 20 January 2003; 3rd Rebbe, 20 January 2003; 4th Rebbe, 20 January 2003; 5th Rebbe, 22 March 2004; 6th Rebbe, 20 January 2003; and helped start 7th Rebbe, 30 December 2002. Therefore I greatly admire the Chabad movement, however that being said, Wikipedia should not be allowed to become a reverse WP:MIRROR site for Chabad.org and the hundreds of pro-Chabad websites and blogs in order to protect the WP:NPOV of Wikipedia. IZAK (talk) 04:19, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Yehoishophot Oliver has made many comments admitting that he is using Wikipedia to promote his religious viewpoints. He has made no effort to follow Wikipedia policies. He also tries to use guilt, to shame Jewish Wikipedia editors into following his lead, as he believes that his edits promote his Rebbe's religious worldview - which he believes to be the only right, Jewish worldview. He and many other pro-Chabad editors have clearly, publicly and repeatedly gone to war against all Wikipedia policies. They are trying to turn this Encyclopedia into a public relations tool for their faith. This is unacceptable. RK (talk) 04:22, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Also for the record, I have made financial donations to three different Chabad houses over the last twenty years. The sad thing is that they have become radicalized, created an us-versus-them worldview, and started trying to force their views on others. RK (talk)

• This is ridiculous, and has gone way too far. If someone is violating WP:BATTLEGROUND, and about half a dozen other WP rules it's Izak, who seems to be engaged in a campaign of harassment against Chabad-related editors. This tendentious COI complaint is typical. So are his claims of a "fifth column" of Chabad editors with "growing powers and influnce" trying to "take over Wikipedia" and "turn it into chabad.org". He also constantly calls articles he doesn't like WP:CFORKs, completely ignoring the actual definition of a fork; I don't know why he does that.

  Claiming that Yehoishophot Oliver has some sort of COI here is exactly the same as claiming that Izak has a COI on any Jewish article, and that he should quit WikiProject Judaism, as should all Jews. Obviously that is not a valid claim. -- Zsero (talk) 04:31, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

  • Zsero, kindly stick to the issues. you are displaying the very problem I am addressing, that when anyone who is not a Chabad editor on Wikipedia either disagrees or lodges a complaint you then go into over-drive and violate WP:OWN as well as WP:NPA. I am not "making things up here" -- I have been a Wikipedia editor in the Judaic sections for seven years and I can honestly and objectively state that the way pro-Chabad articles and links are proliferating on Wikipedia, Wikipedia will soon look like a reverse WP:MIRROR site for Chabad.org. Instead of having a temper tantrum you need to devise a way that pro-Chabad editors can control their obvious ambitions to run anything to do with Chabad on Wikipedia as any edit history of a major Chabad topic will show that anyone trying to insert what runs counter to the pro-Chabad party line will be attacked by swarms of pr-Chabad editors, like you and User {{user|Debresser}] as current good example sof pro-Chabad POV warriors, who will ensure that articles Chbada articles reflect the official Chabad position. I now citing you and User {{user|Debresser}] as accessories to the problem at hand. IZAK (talk) 04:48, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
• You have got to be kidding. What conceivable COI do you think I have? This is a deliberately false and tendentious accusation, an abuse of WP, and I'm calling for some sort of action against Izak. At the very least, he needs A Cup Of Tea, A Bex and A Good Lie Down. -- Zsero (talk) 04:55, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Zsero, this is a serious matter, stop trying to trivialize it or to ridicule a situation simply because of WP:IDONTLIKEIT. By the way, kindly do NOT assert falsehoods, take a good look at WP:CFORK and WP:POVFORK, they are on the same page and it states there : "A content fork is usually an unintentional creation of several separate articles all treating the same subject. A point of view (POV) fork is a content fork deliberately created to avoid neutral point of view guidelines, often to avoid or highlight negative or positive viewpoints or facts. Both content forks and POV forks are undesirable on Wikipedia, as they avoid consensus building and therefore violate one of our most important policies." So when the pro-Chabad editors create deliberate POV and CONTENT forks, like Noahide Campaign (now mercifully and logically voted to merge with Seven Laws of Noah); or Letter in the Sefer Torah campaign (now deleted but it was logically part of either Sefer Torah or Mitzvah Campaigns) or Tefillin campaign (which was now logically voted to merge with Mitzvah Campaigns and it could just as easily been part of the main Tefillin article) and there are lots more examples like this, these are clear-cut examples of both CONTENT and POV forking by the pro-Chabad editors to push their POV as they forget that here on Wikipedia there is a more comprehensive broader encyclopedic WP:NPOV outlook on Judaism that they must accept on Wikipedia. IZAK (talk) 05:07, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

• I'd like to put aside the question of FORKS for a moment a agree with IZAK regarding COI. When I work for a company, I am asked to declare a COI on any relevant article. I am still allowed to edit said article but it means that my work will be scrutinized by others for POV. Having a strong affiliation with a group, especially one with a public agenda of sharing their point of view with others, in my opinion is no less COI that working for an organization.
  While we all know that there is a certain amount of OR that we all bring to bear when editing WP articles (esp. in on Jewish topics) I would recommend that Oliver voluntarily restrict himself to 3rd party , reliable sources regarding his edits on Chabad and outreach related topics. Joe407 (talk) 05:23, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

  That is an outrageous demand. You may as well say that every Jew has a COI on Jewish topics, every Xian on Xian topics, every Buddhist on Buddhist topics, etc. Or that every US voter with political opinions has a COI on any US-politics related topic. -- Zsero (talk) 05:30, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

  • Zsero, cut out the tones of hysteria PLEASE and be logical. I don't know about other religions, but Judaism and especially Orthodox Judaism is highly complex and multi-multi-faceted with thousands of nuances. Everything on Wikipedia is based on edit history and the style of an editor and that is how editors are judged. This is not about hypothetical arguments about what Christians do (you can use that word on Wikipedia and there is no need to use "Xian" which is offensive to other editors who may be Christians and not "Xians") or what Buddhists write, this is about the confirmed and obvious observations of the tactics and methods and aims of the pro-Chabad WP:POVWARRIORS, like you and the above-mentioned, who are gung ho to insert whatever they like about Chabad-related topics, no matter how trivial and repetative at times, as if Wikipedia was a branch or subsidiary of Chabad.org and if anyone seriously questions them in the larger Chabad articles they act in defiance of WP:OWN TO OTHER NON-CHABAD JUDAIC EDITORS (and not to "Xians" and Buddhists) and fight THEIR SUPPOSED FELLOW JUDAIC CO-EDITORS, albeit not being Chabadniks, harder than they would fight "Xians" and Buddhists to keep the pro-Chabad POV party line in articles often eliminating excellent points BY OTHER JUDAIC EDITORS, OFTEN AS OBVIOUSLY ORTHODOX AS THEY ARE, by resorting to defending their articles in packs, thus wearing down and tiring out the others resulting in the ongoing hegemony over the Chabad articles by the Chabad editors ONLY, again in violation of WP:OWN. IZAK (talk) 06:28, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

1. I do not hide my Chabad identity online, and I choose not to go by a pseudonym on wikipedia, and I don't see that this violates any rule. On wikipedia I strive to follow the rules, and that is what matters. I want to improve wikipedia through creating quality articles and editing existing ones, and that is what I have done, with Hashem's help. These articles are generally related to Judaism, because I have no knowledge or interest in writing articles about Islam or any other religion, being that I don't belong to them. I guess I have a COI because I'm Jewish, huh. Whatever.
2. Conversely, Izak has made it clear that he identifies as an Orthodox Jew (which of course I respect). Perhaps someone who doesn't identify himself as such may now come and accuse Izak of being unfit to edit any Judaism-related article, because he is coming with the POV of Orthodox Judaism (which is by the way a world-view that according to all halachic opinions require a Jew to convince other Jews to accept it--as per the mitzvah of hocheiach tochiach es amisecho)? Most world views have a certain degree of "we want others to believe as we do". Big deal. And many wikipedia editors are not ashamed about mentioning their world-views, Izak included. For example, there are very pro-Islam/arab and very pro-Israel editors on wikipedia. Does the fact that they clearly hold something personally, hence the nature of their edits, disqualify them from editing? I think not.
3. As for making lots of edits on one general topic (I'm not aware of a rule against this, but whatever), perhaps we will accuse Izak of that, since he clearly has a preference for editing Judaism related articles over Islam-related ones? I might also add that over the years I have edited many non-Chabad related Judaism articles.
4. In any case, if someone believes that a particular edit of mine is incorrect or one-sided, they are welcome to quote counter-sources to promote balance (may I point out that I even added a whole controversy section to the Public Menorah article in order to create balance there). If they believe I have erred in counting a subject as a separate article, they are welcome to argue for that position. But this has turned into not just harassment, but nothing short of a witch-hunt.
5. What is most outrageous is Izak claiming that he has no personal agenda against Chabad, when in the recent Public Menorah afd he repeatedly used the most derogatory POV, uncivil language against Chabad and against the Lubavitcher Rebbe, accusing him of a "drive for hegemony", calling his directives "dictats", accusing his disciples of carrying out their Rebbe's directives "robotically and unthinkingly", dismissing his call for Public menorahs as invalid, incorrect, and therefore not worthy of inclusion, because many rabbis disagreed with it, and declaring that Public menorahs "really have nothing to do with menorahs as such but are aimed at furthering the Chabad world view upon everyone", and more. All of this was completely irrelevant to the discussion there, which was about the notability of Public Menorahs, and the most blatant violations of WP:NPOV, WP:BATTLEGROUND, WP:NOTSOAPBOX and especially WP:CIV, WP:NPA, and WP:AGF. Above Izak also violates WP:OUTING by posting personal information about me from a search engine, info. which I did not post on wikipedia.
6. Oh, and RK also reveals his anti-Chabad POV agenda himself right here: "I have made financial donations to three different Chabad houses over the last twenty years. The sad thing is that they have become radicalized, created an us-versus-them worldview, and started trying to force their views on others." But please, let RK adduce proof for the outrageous claims he makes against me, which clearly violate WP:CIV, WP:NPA, and WP:AGF. Yehoishophot Oliver (talk) 07:45, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Regarding User:Yehoishophot Oliver's comments:

1. You contradict yourself by saying that on one hand "I do not hide my Chabad identity online, and I choose not to go by a pseudonym on wikipedia, and I don't see that this violates any rule" but on the other hand it's "outing" you to call you and KNOW you by your real online name which is also your Wikipedia name that you don't even attempt to hide, even when Emailing back and forth you use your name. Totally illogical. You are being facetious when you write "I guess I have a COI because I'm Jewish, huh" -- nope, because it's not the point, the point is that we are discussing your editorship and spread of a specific pro-Chabad ideology writing articles and defending pro-Chabad POV positions when other editors seek to insert or debate many of the issues that you and your allies stonewall.
2. I have NOT identified myself as an Orthodox Jew or as any kind of Jew on Wikipedia at any time, but I have pointed out that YOU and your allies do not co-operate EVEN with Orthodox editors, which is quite obvious from the way they have commented against your practices many times.
3. Sure, anyone can freely edit any articles, kindly stop fuzzing up the issues. The main point of this complaint is that when it comes to the topic of Chabad you create too many POV forks and within Chabad articles you and your allies will not allow any view that diverges from standard pro-Chabad propaganda (and it is outright UN-encyclopedic propaganda) to be found on Chabad.org but not befitting Wikipedia to be acting as a surrogate mouthpiece for Chabad care of your editorial stewardship.
4. This is not a "witch hunt" and you are neither a witch nor a wizard, but like everyone else, and as pointed out by a few editors here already, as a Wikipedia editor you need to be restrained from creating articles on Wikipedia in the image of Chabad.org or that befits web sites like Beis Moshiach.org or Moshiach.net or Lubavitch.com or Lubavitch Networks.org or any of the literal thousands of pro-Chabad sites that no doubt somehow or other you and other pro-Chabad editors would like to see as the face of not just Wikipedia's Chabad articles but with links in all Judaic articles, and it's very funny you talk of welcoming others to edit along with the pro-Chabad editors which is like a bird trying to fly with a swarm of hornets as they buzz in when anyone they don't like tries to insert edits not to their liking. It can be proven from almost any of the multiple pro-Chabad pages on Wikipedia.
5. To repeat I have no agenda against Chabad. God bless them. But they have no automatic right to invade Wikipedia and assume that they WP:OWN every last shred of information that relates to them, their highly controversial movement that faces serious questions from all sides of the Jewish spectrum. Kindly note that none of the terminology I used is in any way unsuitable when talking about an aggressive and unyielding leader because Wikipedia biographies are NOT hagiography, so nothing I have stated thus far exceeds terms suitable for discussing powerful, almost frightening, and controversial figures.
6. What is wrong with any User saying that he made financial contributions to Chabad? It's very kind in fact. Like the donations Wikipedia asks for now on top of every page. We can go by WP:AGF and WP:CIVIL and praise that person's generosity instead of assuming that having analytical thoughts and the ability to think and dicuss things in a critical manner somehow negates that person's sterling qualities. Wikipedia does not require a pledge of allegiance to the Lubavitcher Rebbe or to any rabbi because Wikipedia is not a shtetel, nor is it a Chasidus, nor is it a yeshiva but rather it's an encyclopedia that requires that articles follow its well-established guidelines. No amount of WP:LAWYERING by Users Yehoishophot Oliver (talk · contribs) and Zsero (talk · contribs) and other single minded pro-Chabad defenders can cover up or excuse the free ride they have enjoyed so far without anyone seriously challenging them and the other pro-Chabad WP:POVWARRIORs that they must fall in line with WP:CONSENSUS and not game the system to suit the aims of Chabad while undermining the over-all development of a more balanced and critical view of Chabad topics as well as other topics that they delve into. IZAK (talk) 08:51, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Response by Debresser

I definitely have a POV towards Chabad, since I am a Chabad rabbi. Likewise I have a POV towards Jewish points of view in general. And a whole lot of other POV's. I guess just like anybody. Nevertheless I try, and I think with success, to remain more or less objective. I can show edits that clearly prove I am doing a very good job at that. Including in the cases mentioned/alluded to above. Obviously, as any Wikipedian editor in good stanfing, I would have no problem with a third-party assessment of my behavior in this issue (or any other issue connected with my behavior on Wikipedia). Debresser (talk) 08:45, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

• User Debresser's comments are to be welcomed, but it's too little too late, and the reasons are to be found in his words. Does it mean because Chabad has thousands of rabbis who have their own Chabad websites and blogs and who are streaming to Wikipedia in greater numbers as the days, weeks, and months fly by, that Wikipedia will have to bow in submission to the "greater wisdom" and resounding presence of thousands of Chabad rabbis who will think in unison and will in effect by SHEER NUMBERS unite to crush Wikipedia's independence, control every letter that's written about Chabad on it, and wage into areas about Judaic and Israeli-related topics that no one will be able to withstand as they declare "I am a Chabad rabbi"? This will be a sad and sorry state of affairs and the END of Wikipedia as it has been known until now. That is why it is important for other Wikipedians to be made aware of this very real threat to Wikipedia's independnce unless guidelines and restraints are set up to enforce total neutrality and ensure that not even Chabad topics can be WP:OWNED by Chabad rabbis, no matter how many show up and declare their authority as such. IZAK (talk) 09:06, 28 December 2009 (UTC)