Please add notes to the end of this page. I'll probably reply here unless you suggest another page for a reply. Thanks, WhatamIdoing (talk)

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Contents 1 Drug court 2 Sock? 3 special education 4 not jessica 5 WhatamIdoing 6 Roadcreature 7 Focal Points 8 Ending WP:EL RfC 9 WP:LAYOUT 10 This is a blue box 11 discussion 12 the challenge 13 Need your opinion on some photographs 14 Request for Comment 15 WP:LAYOUT 2 16 Article stats 17 inclusion 18 New effort to connect bra use with cancer 19 Thanks... 20 Clarification 21 Thankx 22 Polio 23 Request for peer review of the SENSOR-Pesticides article 24 Patience 25 Barnstar 26 Article score numbers 27 AfD nomination of Special school 28 WT:POLICY 29 WP:MEDMOS "Organization of articles pertaining to both a virus and a disease" 30 special school 31 Good try 32 Regarding your message 33 WP:BLP/N Comments

[edit] Drug court

I added the WikiProject Medicine tag as it appeared to fall within the scope. Drug courts are not just about the legal system, but also involve mental health professionals and treatment programmes, and is really a branch of drug rehabilitation as much as the legal system. Aha, I've just come across WikiProject Drug Policy, that'll be appropriate. p.s. I've added the medicine tag to the drug rehab article. Fences&Windows 19:58, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

The connection seemed too distant to me: For one thing, the courts order treatment, but don't directly provide it. We'd also include prison under the "involves health care professionals" logic, because they have significant medical facilities and are the de facto mental health "safety net" in most of the USA.

Having said that, I truly understand the impulse, and I don't think your initial action was unreasonable. The drug policy project seems very appropriate, and I'm glad that you thought to add that one.

Please feel free to keep tagging (and removing tags) as seems reasonable to you. If it happens that you and I don't agree, we can always ask for other opinions at WT:MEDA. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:56, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Sock?

It may have been proven I'm not WLU, and about 200 other people besides, but I don't think we've had the pleasure of sharing an SPI yet (although I may be wrong). Are you sure you're not me? Or did you just mean you're very talkative? ;) Verbal chat 22:22, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

The only SPIs I've been involved in have been reporting User:Jessica Liao's ban-evading socks.

I hadn't thought about it, but perhaps I should have said "WLU or Verbal". There's no need to alarm this new editor with implying that you two are the same person. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:34, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] special education

made an edit regarding resource rooms, hopefully you can help with the edit/formatting. Thanks for your inputJimsteele9999 (talk) 23:47, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi Jessica,

You know that you're not supposed to be editing Wikipedia. Please just stop. If you quit editing for one year, then you can apply to have the ban suspended. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:39, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] not jessica

A checkuser has checked their IP address, and concluded the same facts. Additionally, I have explained the sockpuppety policy, and asked them to edit from a single account. They have agreed.

I trust this will resolve the matter.

Regards, Steven Zhang ^{The clock is ticking....} 22:00, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] WhatamIdoing

What a great username. Bravo for the ingenuity.Nerguy (talk) 21:46, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:56, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Roadcreature

Confirmed. I have neither the authority to unban him nor any particular wish to do so. — Dan | talk 02:31, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I am relieved to hear that. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:55, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Focal Points

I just replied to your question on Talk:Principles and Standards for School Mathematics#Examples. When I wrote I did not know who you were. I have looked at your edits and see that you have made a number of excellent contributions to the PSSM article. If you want to try again to put up some good "Simple Examples", go for it. Just make sure they actually come from the descriptions in the Focal Points document. I think you are right that examples are needed, but I am only an occasional Wikipedia contributor and really don't have time right now. But I'd be happy to tweak your examples as long as they are close to the spirit and content of the actual Focal Points document. Whatever you decide, thanks for your many valuable contributions to this article in recent years. It was quite awful back in 2006! I am glad to see it has grown into a respectable article now. --seberle (talk) 13:55, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

I just saw your two edits of the examples. The second edit is fine. Though not how a textbook would likely put it, it is the same and it spares readers the trouble of checking the definition of "diagonal." The first, however, does not fit the definition in the Focal Points. There is no mention of simple substitution in the Focal Point definition. This kind of problem was already covered in the Grade 6 Focal Points. The definition in the Grade 8 Focal Point focuses very heavily on conceptual understandings of equations. The example I wrote (which I will restore) was based on this sentence from the Focal Points: "Students understand that the slope (m) of a line is a constant rate of change, so if the input, or x-coordinate, changes by a specific amount, a, the output, or y-coordinate, changes by the amount ma." The problem may look slightly unorthodox and even puzzle some readers, but this is the kind of conceptual understanding the NCTM is shooting for. If you still disagree, there are plenty of other possibilities suggested by the definition. --seberle (talk) 19:35, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

My goal was to reduce the example to the simplest case covered by the focal point, which is merely "Students use linear functions...to...solve a variety of problems."

We should probably link to the Linear equation article in that section. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:56, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Done --seberle (talk) 21:10, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Ending WP:EL RfC

It's been 10 days and the !vote is 6/0/1, with significant support even from the neutral. I don't see much benefit in continuing. Since you are the nominator, you would have to be the one to close it early. --UncleDouggie (talk) 11:31, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Since the outcome is favorable to me, I don't particularly want to risk the drama that an early closure sometimes brings. The last response was just two days ago, so it's possible that we'll get more comments.

But if you wanted to suggest closing it on that page, so that others have a couple of days to object, that's okay with me. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:23, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] WP:LAYOUT

Dang it, I forgot to include the One True Way^TM in my comment. Thanks, you're on-top of things. This is the fourth time—we've responded to the same fundamental issue? Whether you agree with me that its mutual concern to address this, diverge to preserve the status quo, or choose neutrality. I'm seeing patterns in the talk mechanics that's making consensus difficult. Before I run my mouth on this: Are you interested? What do you see? ChyranandChloe (talk) 06:57, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm always interested, if occasionally frustrated, in this subject, but there's really nothing about these conversation that affects the consensus: The long-standing and strongly defended community consensus is to dodge the inevitable holy war by absolutely and steadfastly refusing to anoint any given system for communicating information about sources as the One True™ answer.

These conversations aren't about consensus; they're about editor education. Some editors are surprised, even shocked, to discover that the bona fide consensus is to allow editors an "unexpected" and "undesirable" amount of freedom. This produces both diversity of practice and, in the minds of some editors, a painful ambiguity about whether their choices are the Right™ choices.

I cannot see any method of soothing their fears about making a "wrong" choice (a choice that technically does not exist, outside of vandalism) while respecting the community consensus. They're going to have to live with the ambiguity, even if they find it painful.

As for Bzuk, I think his (her?) position is even less tenable than the "just tell me the right answer!" folks, because Bzuk appears to wish that Chicago will be declared the right answer, and that will never happen. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:39, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Bzuk is a he. We have a mutual understanding about the guideline's ambiguity, although we diverge on the details; but that wasn't my thesis. This is: Language affects consensus. If an editor were an outright PoV pusher, it wouldn't be hard to get rid of them (WP:PBAGDSWCBY). However, editors who engage in policy will likely have a rudimentary understanding of those policies itself. They won't get blocked, and the discussion will be dramatically lengthened. I was wondering if you had any insights about this, before I tell you mine. That's what I meant. ChyranandChloe (talk) 04:51, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

I have no particular thoughts on this subject right now, and certainly none that we haven't discussed three or four times before.

(BTW, if you happen to be editing on a Mac, ™ is option-2; the shortcut might save you a little hassle. I hear that these things are harder on Microsoft systems.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:56, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

FYI, <Alt>+0153 will do the trick on Windows, should you ever take a walk on the wild side ;-) Pointillist (talk) 00:11, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] This is a blue box

telling you that I've answered you on my talk page. - Hordaland (talk) 12:35, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] discussion

If there is good faith to resolve this issue, I would appreciate it if discussion happened here. There was a marked degree of nastiness in recent posts and this uncivilness needs to be addressed. If a contributor feels uncomfortable because of very uncivil behaviour, there is no reason why they must communicate if there is a significant chance of further abuse. I've suggested a cooling off period and and apology. If you have other ideas I'd like to hear them.--scuro (talk) 19:46, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your message.

I reject a cooling off period as an unnecessary delaying tactic.

I have wanted only one thing through this entire conversation: I just want you to tell me exactly what "accusations" I have made that I "didn't respond" to and that you don't have diffs to support. Please just name the specific "accusations" that are (in your opinion) unsupported by diffs and links.

Alternatively, if you look things over and discover that the diffs and links are already present, then just tell me that the diffs and links are, in fact, already present, and that you won't make this particular baseless accusation again in the future.

If you wish to apologize to me for this baseless accusation, then I will accept, but I realize that the ADHD case was very long and complex, so I'm willing to excuse it. An apology is much less important to me that your commitment not to make the same mistake again.

If you think that I owe you an apology, then you will have to tell me what you want to be apologized to about.

It's Tuesday afternoon, and I'm going off to read WP:RFC/U. I will not file the RfC/U if you deal with this issue now, but I will be prepared to do so. You can stop that process whenever you choose by simply naming the accusation that still requires a diff or link to support it, or by admitting that you have already been presented with sufficient evidence. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:33, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I have decided to start drafting it at User:WhatamIdoing/Sandbox. I will work on it over the next couple of days. You can choose to avoid the RfC/U simply by telling me exactly what assertion isn't supported somewhere on the ArbCom pages, or by saying that upon more careful review, you find that the support is, in fact, all there. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:37, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

"How can that possibly be unflattering or disparaging? Anyone that has received as many negative comments as you and Mattisse have, despite apparently trying to get along with editors, would not be pleased to see new messages, because (based on a purely rational analysis of past experience), odds are that the new message is another message from someone who is mad at you. Even if they "shouldn't" be upset with you, it's still unpleasant.

"You have clearly stated that you don't want conversations on your user talk page (e.g., [1]), and I take this as a sign that you're beginning to feel as badgered as Mattisse. Would it be more 'flattering' for me to conclude that the opposite? Is it 'disparaging' for me to suggest that you've been under attack for a long time -- an opinion that I believe you shared wholeheartedly?"

"But my point is this: if there is any 'unsupported statement', it's an issue right now, because it's an issue for me. The choice available to you is to either identify the statement(s) that you still believe are unsupported -- and I'll provide you with the diffs to support it -- or give me your word that you'll never again drag this baseless claim into another conversation. Do you understand your options?"[2]"

Administrator Xavexgoem also felt your response was "nasty". [3] I need to know that you also see this as uncivil behaviour and that in the future you are committed to solving our difference in a civil manner. From that starting point I'd be pleased to answer your questions and share my perspective about those statements. :-) --scuro (talk) 22:49, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

What is "this"? My message to Xav said that I did not want you to suffer what Mattisse is suffering in her ArbCom-assigned mentorship. Is it "nasty" to wish that you not suffer needless stress from other editors? Is it "nasty" of me to wish you well?

My question for you is only this: What statement(s) in my comment at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/ADHD#Comment_by_WhatamIdoing is unsupported? If you'd really "be pleased to answer" this question, then please just answer it. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:55, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't think I am asking for a lot, and what I am asking for is totally reasonable given the circumstances. This is not just my viewpoint but the viewpoint of an administrator. I'd ask you kindly to reconsider.--scuro (talk) 23:09, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I'd like you to answer my question instead of saying that you will, but never doing it. I don't think that's asking very much, either. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:21, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Okay compromise. I'd like to ask one question of you and have it earnestly answered, and I would like an apology. Give me a date that you will do this by. In return I will answer your question tomorrow, I'm a bit busy now and would like time to consider what is in front of me. I live by commitments and I trust that you live by yours. Does this sound reasonable?--scuro (talk) 02:41, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I buy no pigs in pokes. You may ask me whatever questions you choose, whenever you choose to ask them. I answer appropriate questions and do not answer inappropriate questions. I cannot promise either a reply or a particular date for a reply without knowing what the question is. If your question is appropriate, and I know the answer (and I'm otherwise active on Wikipedia, and therefore actually receive the question), then you could reasonably expect a reply within hours. WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:31, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Just FYI, I will probably be off-wiki for about the next 12 hours (give or take several hours). WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:02, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

The question is, what purpose did you have in connecting my name in a disparaging way, to Mattisse on a post, on my mentor's talk page [4] shortly after that relationship was created? I'd simply like to have a date by which time the question will be earnestly answered, and an apology will be given. I'd like that commitment and with that commitment I would also commit to immediately answering any question you may have of me.--scuro (talk) 09:59, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

You may have an immediate answer, because it is quite simple: I did not "connect [your] name in a disparaging way, to Mattisse".

I reject your assertion that Mattisse's name is somehow an insult, or that being compared to an excellent copyeditor with more than 70,000 edits and a string of awards for Featured Articles is "disparaging", and I tell you plainly that she would be deeply and IMO justifiably hurt to discover that you apparently think so.

There are certainly similarities in the cases, e.g.:

• Both you and Mattisse are involved in intractable problems that started as content disputes;
• Both you and Mattisse have a string of editors that are convinced that entirely neutral statements that you write are proof that you're terrible -- the point that you're both wondering whether it's safe to write something like, "Hello, How are you?" for fear that it might be misinterpreted as meaning "I hate you!" instead of just "Hello, How are you?";
• Both you and Mattisse have received dozens of unpleasant complaints for well over a year, to the point that you clearly dread dealing with certain editors;
• Both you and Mattisse have been blamed and scapegoated for driving away editors and other problems;
• Both you and Mattisse have editors that pile on any little error to blow things out of proportion;
• Both you and Mattisse have been deeply hurt by the ArbCom process;
• Both you and Mattisse are at risk for topic bans if the mentorships don't work out.

There are, in short, a remarkable number of similarities.

I had one single purpose with that message: To encourage Xav to identify and avoid the problems that Mattisse's ArbCom-assigned mentors have (inadvertantly) exacerbated. I did not want your ArbCom-assigned mentorship to be as traumatizing to you as Mattisse's ArbCom-assigned mentorship has been to her.

If you wish, I will apologize for hoping that your involuntary mentorship would be more successful and less stressful than Mattisse's. Alternatively, you could apologize to me for assuming such bad faith that you believed statements like "you might want to consider their problems and see how many of them you can avoid" means "I hate Scuro and I want to hurt him" instead of "I do not want Scuro to suffer needlessly through his mentor's ignorance and inaction". WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:29, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I can accept that in your mind you saw a connection. What you state above is narrative some of which is true but more not. Here is the quote, "And, like Scuro, Mattisse really doesn't want the conversation on her user talk page. (Anyone who gets that many complaints would develop a twitch whenever the new message box pops up.)". To me it is disparaging to the both of us. This is storytelling to paint a picture in someone's mind. It makes assumptions, and paints an issue in a certain way. That viewpoint is insulting to me, and it may very well be insulting to Mattisse also.

The apology that I am looking for is the "nasty" quote already mentioned above. It doesn't have to be today but I would appreciate it if you let me know if it is coming, and at date I shall receive it.--scuro (talk) 21:39, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I do not think that I have ever said anything to you that any reasonable person would describe as "disgusting; physically repellent; indecent or offensive; malicious or spiteful" -- in short, "nasty", if you choose to look it up in a dictionary. There is nothing "disgusting; physically repellent; indecent or offensive; malicious or spiteful" about saying that you and Mattisse are both suffering from a difficult and needlessly painful ArbCom case. I rather suspect that most people would interpret such statements as being wikt:sympathetic to you.

I have repeatedly requested that you tell me exactly what statements in my ArbCom Request comment still require support. You're spending a lot of time telling people that other editors are unfairly accusing you without support, and yet you persistently refuse to answer my extremely simple question on this point. If you want other people to not accuse you unfairly, then perhaps you should stop accusing me unfairly. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:33, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I remind you of your own words: No one should be able to continuously make false accusations and speak ill of you in wikipedia.[5] I think I am reasonable in expecting your sweeping statement that "no one should be able to continuously make false accusations" to apply to yourself. Despite this supposed abhorrence of false accusations, you have claimed on several pages, read by many different editors, that I made false accusations against you in a non-binding comment to ArbCom for which you have no supporting evidence.

Please name the specific purported accusations so that I can provide support for them.

Alternatively, if you discover when you look at my statement that it already includes two diffs and two links, and that every other claim is supported by diffs and links in your very own statements, then I will accept a retraction of your false accusation against me and a commitment that you will not lodge this particular false accusation against me ever again.

Note that I do not demand an apology for I still assume is an honestly mistaken memory of the details in a long and complex case. I simply want to be given a fair chance to correct any omission, or for you to stop "continuously making false accusations and speaking ill of" me on this point.

Am I perfectly clear about what I want? WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:43, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] the challenge

Yes you are clear and I shall give you what you want. I'd ask you kindly to "lower" the tone. So lets get started. I'll do this in chunks because discussion goes on forever on basic points.

A response to WhatamIdoing

Although WhatamIdoing has not joined this arbitration, he did provide evidence at the proposal. I thought it important to respond.

"My impression of Scuro as a result of these past encounters is poor. He doesn't seem to care about Wikipedia's policies and guidelines except as they might be used to bludgeon those with mainstream POVs, and he seems to assume that anyone who isn't with him is against him. When it looks like he might "lose" an argument, he shifts the goalposts, which means that nothing ever gets resolved. You start off discussing a fairly narrow question like "Is there any reliable source that supports this assertion?" and you proceed through discussions about whether or not it's polite to revert the additions of unsourced material, whether this woman he's e-mailing thinks that encyclopedias should be based on primary sources, whether a literature review quits being a literature review when it gets old enough (I'm not kidding), and end up with accusations of "bias" in people that were doing basic editing tasks, like removing unsourced assertions that are probably wrong. Oh, and all of this takes place on at least three different pages, with resulting miscommunications and misrepresented "consensus" from editors that had no idea what the context of his slightly strange questions are". - That's a mouthful. No diffs?

There are a pile of accusations there. It's been a year, so yes some of that certainly seems like hyperbole if not downright false. But I could be wrong, what is your opinion?

The "Theraputics Initiative" review was examined at Doc James med cab [6] and it was found to be lacking as a citation for a bio-med article. At that point I began to question if med/scientific reviews should have a set of criteria to determine quality. A thread was started at "Reliable sources (medicine-related articles) [7] I suggest people open that thread instead of relying on WhatamIdoing's subjective interpretation of what happened there.

This passage is about your sentence, "Is there any reliable source that supports this assertion?" The issue was Doc Jame's citation which was rejected. That topic was dealt with but the end result was an edit war by Doc James to keep the citation on the page. It is still on the page. There was "no jumping around" of topics. What is your opinion here?

More after we digest this. And can you please let me know if you do plan to make an apology for this post[8], and if so when? Lets put that issue to bed.--scuro (talk) 03:31, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

My description of the meandering MEDRS conversation is obviously supported by that conversation, which I linked later in that comment, and which you linked yourself. WP:DIFFs themselves are not required by ArbCom's rules when a WP:Wikilink can serve exactly the same purpose.

Is there an alleged fact in that comment that you disagree with? Do you, for example, choose to deny discussing your private e-mail messages at length? WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:48, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

It's been so long for me since I looked at this stuff, but it is coming together now. "He doesn't seem to care about Wikipedia's policies and guidelines except as they might be used to bludgeon those with mainstream POVs". I'd like to see evidence for this statement, especially the "not caring" bit. Also can you be straightforward about if you plan to apologize for this remark[9]?--scuro (talk) 02:35, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

This is clearly a statement of my opinion -- note, please, the use of the phrase "seem to" -- and is the appearance you gave (to myself as well as others) in the linked MEDRS conversation, in which your primary goal was to change the guideline to support your side of a content dispute. My impression is additionally supported, of course, by your persistent refusal to provide any sources that support any information that you wanted to add to these articles, but as others addressed those points in rather more detail than ArbCom could possibly have wished for, I didn't think it necessary to include that additional point.

I thought I was already clear: I will not apologize for having wished that your ArbCom-imposed mentorship was less stressful to you than Mattisse's is to her. I will not apologize for believing that you are rational -- rational enough to recognize a pattern of mostly negative comments from other editors, and rational enough to wish that you weren't on the receiving end of so many negative comments. In my culture, at least, being called wikt:rational is a compliment, not an insult. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:45, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Again what you state is narrative, it is subjective, or as you call it: "opinion"....or an "impression". Of course you think that using the word, "seems", lets you off the hook to say mean things that you are unwilling to support with diffs.

Let me give you an equivalent. We are priests, someone has made an allegation, and there is a hearing. You use words like, "bludgeon" and phrases like, "...and he seems to assume that anyone who isn't with him is against him", and you do so by your second sentence of a hearing. As priests the only thing that matters is our reputation, but when challenged, you say that this is your, "impression". This doesn't wash on any societal level.

You made the above statements, and some more, at an arbitration request. This is a time when one should be most careful with one's words. It is shameful what you did. Worse, is that more then half of the other complainants couldn't stick to facts either and left us with further "impressions". It was a perfect score when they judged. It never really has stopped now has it? I'm signing off here. Best wishes to you, and I hope the next time we meet, it will be a positive and productive experience. Peace Whatiamdoing.--scuro (talk) 01:00, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, you're right: I believe that the request at ArbCom was a statement of opinion supported by certain facts, and that the nature of my comment was adequately communicated to the members of ArbCom through my careful choice of words, such as seems to, that clearly indicate that I am, in part, describing appearances instead of physical facts. If you think that ArbCom members are too careless or stupid or unfamiliar with English to separate the two -- or that they are so inexperienced and gullible that they automatically believe that whatever they read is the Truth™ -- then your problems are well beyond what I can help you address. You could ask one or more of them a direct question on the point, if you choose; I suggest that you ask, 'Do you believe that "He seems to ____" means that "He is definitely doing ____", or simply that "Somebody thinks he is ____"?'

I disagree with your claim that society requires conversation to be restricted to verifiable facts. I am not an impartial judge; I am not required to present a balanced opinion to ArbCom.

I want to be clear: I was careful with my words at the ArbCom request. I was careful to present -- as facts -- only those facts that were verifiably accurate and I was careful to present -- as my opinion -- an accessible, graspable, and accurate summary of my personal beliefs about your ability to be a useful editor on the pages involved in the dispute. That my carefully worded opinion was not favorable to you is a separate issue: My statement accurately and concisely represents my opinion of your success in this dispute. I have no illusions about my level of influence at ArbCom: I'm just another editor, as far as they're concerned, and my comments are no more likely to be True™ than anyone else's. I am confident that they will not confuse my opinion with a fact, even when they are in the process of adopting exactly the remedy that I suggested to them as the most likely to be efficient for building the encyclopedia. WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:03, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Need your opinion on some photographs

Hi. Can you provide you opinion on this matter? Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 01:45, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

On the one hand, I'm happy to help. On the other hand, you seem to have several responses that look more competent than what I could hope to provide, and mere numerical increase in involved editors doesn't necessarily result in a better decision. I'll assume that you're satisfied with the responses you've received (now at BLP/N), unless and until I hear otherwise. WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:56, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Request for Comment

Hey, thanks for responding to my request for a quality evaluation on SENSOR-Pesticides. In the course of re-vamping that article, I've had several in-depth discussions about the appropriate-ness of some of the content, and I posted a RfC on the talk page here. Would you mind putting in your 2 cents so I can have an outside opinion? Thank you! Mmagdalene722 (talk) 12:35, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] WP:LAYOUT 2

“

As far as I can tell, this so-called infobox is actually a WP:NAVBOX, and therefore the infobox rules are irrelevant. (It is now time for an urgent discussion in the kitchen about the chocolate supply...) WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:05, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

”

I know! Cacycle keeps stealing our chocolate, my chocolate, for his example!

Serious. Sigh. Slump. I don't like where this is going. It looks like another holy war. What do you think? ChyranandChloe (talk) 22:38, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

I think it looks like going to the grocery store, because there's only one kind of dark chocolate in my entire kitchen! (I'm not counting the unsweetened blocks, of course.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:44, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Now I say, if the grocery store stocks Alpin milk chocolate, dark, and white—I would feel jolly good whilst my hyperglycemia knocks me into a perpetual coma. Perhaps as we all stand before Saint Peter we may find the true motive behind that delectable dark chocolate. ChyranandChloe (talk) 22:55, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Most of the milk and white chocolates aren't really worth the sugar, IMO. You get more chocolate-y goodness per gram of sugar with the dark stuff. For eating out of hand, I usually prefer something in the 60-65% cacao range. Unfortunately, the grocery store didn't have what I was looking for today (a Lindt Lindor dark truffle bar). Perhaps I'll have better luck another time. (Or perhaps getting the joy of deciding, and walking over to the store in this lovely weather, without the possibility that the experience wouldn't live up to my recollection is the best possible outcome. ;-)

It looks like the TfD is part of a much larger kerfluffle about whether "outlines" are just "lists" under a fancy name. Your notion of holy war seems less implausible by the hour. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:49, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Before Saint Peter we stand.

The dark chocolate's motives clear.
He befouled LAYOUT, befouled all we hold dear.

Forget what flavor: milk, dark, or white.
The the dark chocolate befuddles all, all during the night.

Rally young zealots, peasants, and naives.
Cry "We shall storm the TFD, drowning them in our waves."

Read the stupid text, read the stupid words.
But in response they throw us their turds.

And so the battle has already begun.
And we didn't even get to pick up our big gun.

So it matters not what we experts say.
For they believe in the one, the One True Way^TM.

Knocked to the side.
With their great pride.

So before Saint Peter we stand.
He teeth dark with that dark chocolate brand.

ChyranandChloe (talk) 05:14, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Article stats

Remember seeing a page that listed article view statistics by wikiproject. Do you know if that still exists?Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 23:44, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

WP:WikiProject Medicine/Popular pages. You'll find a link in the {{WPMED Navigation}} template, which is displayed on most WPMED pages. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:58, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] inclusion

A good source is The Inclusion Facilitator's Guide by Cheryl Jorgensen, et. al. She is on staff with the Institute on Disability. The agency is neither pro nor con on the issue, interestingly enough, they focus on research and case studies examining what works and what doesn't. I am not sure what part of the article or source you wanted me to check out (was it the text in the red?--I'm still new to this if you haven't noticed yet). If so, I don't think the remark on students with special needs who are "loud" imdepeding on typical student's progress belongs in there. It's not a legitimate criticism of inclusion--the way I see it it's a remark from someone who would argue what a student with a tremor disorder doesn't belong in a general education class because he makes other students fidgit.

Jim Steele (talk) 00:56, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

That source sounds excellent, and was exactly the kind that I was hoping that you'd be able to suggest. I'll have to see if I can lay my hands on a copy.

"Loud", I think, is a simple example. Having someone involuntarily or unconsciously grunt every few seconds, all day long, every day of the school year, is something that any lay person can grasp as "disruptive" to the people around him. Is there an example that you think would be better? WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:47, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

I'll work on it.

Jim Steele (talk) 02:28, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

What do you think about a seperate page for a special education teacher? Would that help? Or ahould we focus on sifting through what we've got now? Jim Steele (talk) 03:22, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Is there very much to say that doesn't duplicate teacher, and isn't US-specific? Also, does it make sense to have a "teacher" article, when special ed staff includes all sorts of paraprofessionals and non-teaching professionals?

As a more general answer, most articles work like what you saw with resource room: start with a small section in a related article, and when it gets to be a decent size, WP:SPLIT it into a new page. So whenever you choose to do this, I'd suggest that you consider starting with a section (named ==Teachers== or ==Staff== or something like that) in either Special education or Special education in the United States, and see how it develops. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:43, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] New effort to connect bra use with cancer

See Talk:Risk_factors_of_breast_cancer. Care to comment? Mattnad (talk) 16:58, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks...

for your help with the Jeffrey Lieberman article. Psychiatry777 (talk) 01:42, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome, of course. The only thanks that I really want is to see you incorporating those types of changes into this and other articles. It's hard to find anyone that's willing to bother with current biographies outside of pop culture, so I'd like to see you get maximum impact from your work. Happy editing, WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:39, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Clarification

Could you clarify your oppose at the poliomyelitis requested move? Seems to have some opposition. Regards, --—Cyclonenim | Chat  22:35, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you :)

[edit] Thankx

Thank you for the information, I will try to follow it. Bye--Testosterone vs diabetes (talk) 21:01, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome for the information. I hope that it will be helpful. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:03, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Polio

This is what exactly happens when someone proposes a change for clarity not not substance, and surprise, with wikilawyering, someone is playing trump cards and starting a crusade to edit thousands of articles. patsw (talk) 01:08, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Request for peer review of the SENSOR-Pesticides article

Howdy, WhatamIdoing! I was wondering if you'd be willing (and if you're eligible) to look over the SENSOR-Pesticides article and offer any comments for peer review. I know you helped a little with the RfC tag on the talk page, but I'd appreciate your comments on the article as a whole, if you get the chance. Thank you! MMagdalene722^{talk to me} 17:33, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but after looking over the article briefly, I really don't have any suggestions about how to improve it. WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:12, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Patience

Thanks for being more patient than I ([10]). :) MastCell ^Talk 05:50, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome; I hope that the combination of the standard template plus a more specific explanation will do some good. At minimum, I'm hoping that the editor will realize that both critics and supporters would be extremely unhappy to have their names given as supporting views that they firmly reject. WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:02, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar

		The Barnstar of Integrity
		For your integrity, honor and for sticking to your principles. Literaturegeek | T@1k? 23:30, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Article score numbers

How do you get the score of an article as you post here? SunCreator (talk) 23:53, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

By looking here. Scores are per-project: Each article is given a separate score for each project that tags it (and then the highest score by any project is used to make most WP:1.0 decisions). WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:24, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. SunCreator (talk) 13:28, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] AfD nomination of Special school

An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is Special school. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Wikipedia:Notability and "What Wikipedia is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion(s) by adding your comments to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Special school. Please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate.

Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 01:08, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] WT:POLICY

Our discussion at WT:POLICY seems like a reasonable choice for this Monday's WP:SIGNPOST Policy Review section. If you'd like to add to your comments, or add or subtract to the summary of your or anyone else's comments at WT:POLICY#Interview for Signpost, please feel free. (Watching) - Dank (push to talk) 21:47, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] WP:MEDMOS "Organization of articles pertaining to both a virus and a disease"

Yeah, got examples, history won't brief though WhatamIdoing, and I am only addressing one issue at a time. Brevity seems to be taken to terseness, and I don't want a long reply. What do you think? In terms of policy, the guideline shouldn't reflect rare cases, you're right, but that doesn't mean it should make errors in language either. Dicto simplictor, remember? We went over it before in WP:LAYOUT I had to qualify the assertion. "never" would create[...].[11] ChyranandChloe (talk) 05:54, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

I think that any proposal to divide articles into "this part is for the virologists" and "that part is for the clinicians" is doomed to failure. WhatamIdoing (talk) 08:05, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] special school

Yes, I see a newbie, an editor who considers himself a "deletionist" has nominated resource room AND special school for deletion. I've been busy lately, but will add references to ensure this does not happen. If you could do what you can to prevent these deletions, I'd appreiat it. I am not as technically proficisnt so I can't act it accordance to WP policy as quick;y as you, but I feel both articles are not only relevant to special education, they are important. The rationale for deletion that "a simple search doesn't reveal importance" is BS.

Jim Steele (talk) 18:26, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Good try

On user:dolfrog. It appears he's now focused on discussing himself on his talk page, and this will make editing the encyclopedia a bit easier. I'm disengaging. --IP69.226.103.13 (talk) 18:32, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding your message

As you can see, I removed my comments from his page and will not be engaging in any further discussions with him. But, how a word to him about his snide comments about my lack of knowledge of Salinger, or my general lack of ability as an editor? How about a word about his original message on my talk page that got this conversation started? It was his bad faith that got the ball rolling. One way or the other, I intend to continue my work as an editor, and fully intend to ignore him. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 04:50, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm glad that you removed those comments.

On its face, his short question looks quite neutral and civil to me. ("Civil" is not the same as "friendly", of course.)

Shall I assume that there's some dispute in an article you've both been editing? WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:32, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

I think it's safe to say that. Check out A Perfect Day for Bananafish. Although I'm not sure if "dispute" is the correct term, as I'm trying to make this a better article and this person keeps reverting my editing efforts, without good reason, as far as I can see. At least they're not mentioned in the discussion page (where from what I understand that's where they're supposed to be!). Thanks.

Jim Steele (talk) 03:37, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

There are some explanations in the edit summaries, but, to be candid, some of them make no sense to me. For example, how does "Rv; no link for Seymour, which you'd know if you made careful edits" explain his removal of a perfectly valid WP:LINK to the only page on Wikipedia that discusses the character? How can linking to a highly relevant page be an example of careless editing?

I've left a note at WT:BOOKS to request assistance, but I wouldn't count on it, especially over the (US) holiday weekend. It looks like you've got something of a conversation going at the article's talk page, so perhaps that will help. If not, you might like to look into the third opinion page. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:53, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm glad I'm not the only one perplexed by this persons' rationale. For a second I thought his edit summary was an esoteric code that us "rookies" couldn't understand. What I'm trying to do is make this article better. It needs it. Surely, I'm making some errors in the process (I'm learning, slowly, but I'm definately not fishy), but the removal of the link seemed strange. Honestly I would like to have a conversation going at the talk page, but that doesn't seem likely. Take a look at the before and after edits. You don't have to be a scholar of Salinger's works to know that what I've added are verfiable sources and are not controversial (which is commoon ground for this story). Anyway, thanks for your help.

Jim Steele (talk) 04:03, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] WP:BLP/N Comments

In the future, if you're going to use my name, paraphrase me or take something I say out of context I would appreciate it if you would at least have the courtesy of notifying me on my talk page. Malvenue (talk) 04:50, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

No, I won't make a habit of notifying editors that I have joined a conversation that they are already participating in. You should make a habit of keeping track of your own conversations. WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:08, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

In that case I would appreciate it if you wouldn't misrepresent what I say or use my name in the future. Malvenue (talk) 07:31, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't believe I did, but you've apparently forgotten what you were saying last week.[12][13] I've posted a longer explanation at WP:BLP/N#Mark_Levin.2FDavid_Frum. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:09, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Snide comments from both of us aside, what I read your statement to be was essentially "Malvenue is stating Newsweek is not a reputable source when it obviously is" whereas what I basically said to Gamaliel "If National Review is not a reliable source, neither is Newsweek". The basis for my objection to what you reported my statement as being was taken out of context of a very very long discussion. Malvenue (talk) 05:11, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Please see my response at WP:BLP/N. I wish you would pay more attention to the time-stamps on these messages, as you're essentially accusing me of knowing what you're going to post five days in advance of you actually posting it -- unless, of course, User:Ynot4tony2 is also your account, since that editor made a comment along the lines you claim to have made before my note. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:27, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Then shall we leave it as a misunderstanding or are you making another accusation? I honestly can't tell which direction you're coming from. Malvenue (talk) 00:52, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

It's my belief that User:Malvenue and User:Ynot4tony2 are different accounts, because the only pages the two accounts have both edited are Mark Levin, Talk:Mark Levin, and User talk:Ynot4tony2. This represents 10% of the pages (all namespaces) Malvenue has ever edited, and 3% of the pages Ynot4Tony2 has ever edited. On its own, I would not consider this sufficient circumstantial evidence to file a sock report.

Behavioral evidence (such as claiming to have made comments that the other account made) is a separate consideration, but I assume, without any particular foundation, that your comment suggests confusion or carelessness (as well as your agreement with Ynot4tony2's earlier comments) instead of abusive use of multiple accounts.

For the record (because several dozen editors watch this page): I could have filed a request for CheckUser evidence at WP:SPI in the length of time that it took me to reply here, but I did not choose to do so because I do not (currently) think that such a request is warranted. I am willing to believe that Malvenue simply overlooked the fact that my comment preceded his comment. WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:24, 29 November 2009 (UTC)