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Contents 1 Jordanian Royal family tree 2 Dispute 3 Monarch to royalty 4 Margaret of France 5 Hello 6 Maria Theresa of Spain 7 Johanna of Austria 8 Maria Theresa 9 Walls of Dubrovnik 10 Maria 11 Anna Maria Luisa, Electress Palatine of the Rhine 12 Re: Nele Roderburg 13 Imperial and royal titles 14 Alice of Bourbon Parma is a Spanish Royal as Infanta (Spanish Royal Family Template) 15 Royalty to Monarch

[edit] Jordanian Royal family tree

I have omitted the patronymics (bin Abdullah etc) because they are obvious from the family tree. Wives (only wives of Kings) wouldn't be too difficult to show on here, but at your request I have left them out. BartBassist (talk) 17:20, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Abdullah I 1882-1951 Emir 1923-46 King 1946-51

Talal 1909-1972 King 1951-52

Nayef 1914-1983

Hussein 1935-1999 King 1952-99

Ali 1941-

Asem 1948-

Muhammad 1940-

Hassan 1947-

Abdullah II 1962- King 1999-

Faisal 1963-

Ali 1975-

Hamzah 1980-

Hashim 1981-

Talal 1965-

Ghazi 1966-

Rashid 1979-

Hussein 1994-

Hashem 2005-

Omar 1993-

Abdullah 2007-

Hussein 1999-

Muhammad 2001-

Abdullah 2001-

Thank you very much! It's great, as always! Surtsicna (talk) 18:43, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Howdy, I think ya's boo boobed on Crown Prince Hussein. GoodDay (talk) 20:46, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Deleted the simpler version, now that I am happy with the more complicated one. Corrected the link for Crown Prince Hussein. Added Nayef bin Abdullah I and his two sons. BartBassist (talk) 12:38, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Wow, Bart, you went to a lot of work. It looks really impressive. Surtcsicna, I've an idea. Seeing as there is quite a group of us who regularily edit articles on royals and the nobility such as you, Jack1755, Frania, David, as well as myself, I think we should start a Royalty/Nobility project. This way, we can monitor what everyone is working on and if, for some reason, one of us is unable to complete a new article, infobox, whatever, one of us can help out. Today, for example, I started an infobox but before I completed it, I lost my server connection. This would also allow articles to be corrected for errors, typos, etc. What do you think?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 15:51, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

There is Wikipedia:WikiProject Royalty and Nobility. We could join that group. Surtsicna (talk) 17:35, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

The links between the Hashemite family trees are most interesting. The below is taken from this site, and dates can be found by navigating from here. BartBassist (talk) 17:33, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Not only are their links interesting, but their ancestry is interesting too. Did you know that the Hashemite family are the agnatic descendants of Fatimah, the only child of the Prophet Muhammad who survived him and had children of her own? Surtsicna (talk) 17:39, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, they claim to be. Most European royal families claim to be descended from King David, but I doubt they can prove it ;) BartBassist (talk) 17:49, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

It's very likely that their claim is true, unless, of course, wife of someone in the line was naughty. See this line of descent. Surtsicna (talk) 18:08, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

You're probably right - I'd forgotten how much more recent Muhammad was than someone like King David. Anyway, I'm fairly pleased with the family tree below, so I'm thinking of modifying it to make it suitable for the page on the monarchy of Iraq. Once the job is done fully, the tree below and the tree above should between them show all the male-line descendants of Ali bin Nasser, i.e. all the people theoretically eligible to inherit the throne of Jordan. BartBassist (talk) 15:42, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

You remember that you once looked at my family tree of the Greek royal family? For the moment I am simply developing the below family tree along similar lines, trying to uncover links within the family. The innovation of representing spouses in the same box, with descent lines for both spouses (with the husband's line on the left and the wife's on the right), has allowed me to condense this family tree, though obviously it breaks down where somebody has had more than one spouse. Note that, among other things, this family tree now shows all four grandparents, and all four great-grandfathers, of Faisal II of Iraq. BartBassist (talk) 17:09, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Muhammad III 1767-1858 (37th generation desc. of Muhammad)

Abdullah Kamil Pasha ?-1877

Abdullah Pasha 1845-1908

Ali Pasha 1833-1871

Hussein bin Ali 1854-1931 r.1917-24

Nasser bin Ali 1863-?

HEJAZ

IRAQ

JORDAN

(IRAQ)

Ali Pasha 1859-~1932 m. Rahma bint Ali

Salim Pasha

Ali 1879-1935 r.1924-25 m. Nafissa Khanum 1886-1958

Rakan

Faisal I 1883-1933 r.1921-33 m. Huzaima bint Nasser 1885-1935

Abdullah I 1882-1951 r.1946-51 m. Musbah bint Nasser 1885-1961

Jamil Ali ?-1938

Zeid 1898-1970 (r.1958-70) m. Fahrelnissa Zeid

Hussein 1918-1998 m. Badia bint Ali 1920-

Ahmad Hazim m. Jalila bint Ali 1923-55

Abdullah 1913-1958 Regent of Iraq 1939-53

Abdiya bint Ali 1907-1958

Talal 1909-1972 r.1951-52 m. Zein al-Sharaf 1916-1994

Hussein 1902-1982 m. Maqbula 1921-2001

Ra'ad 1936- (r.1970- ) m. Margaretha Lind

Azza 1906-1968 m. Anastassios Haralambides

Raifia 1910-1934

Rajiha 1907-1959 m. Abdul Jabbar Mahmud

Ghazi 1912-1939 r.1933-39 m. Aliyah bint Ali 1911-1950

Zeid 1964-

Firas 1969-

Fahrelnissa 1981-

Huzaima 1940- m. Ghazi 1939-

Faisal II 1935-1958 r.1939-58

Hussein 1935-1999 r.1952-99

Mired 1965-

Faisal 1975-

This thing which I have created above is now aesthetically hideous because I have kept adding to it; I have therefore retrieved an old version from the userpage history. Sorry for cluttering the page. BartBassist (talk) 22:27, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Hussein bin Ali 1854-1931 Emir of Mecca 1908-17 King of Hejaz 1917-24

Nasser bin Ali 1863-? Sharif of Mecca

Ali 1879-1935 Sharif of Mecca and King of Hejaz 1924-25

Faisal I 1883-1933 King of Syria 1920 King of Iraq 1921-33 m. Huzaima bint Nasser 1885-1935

Abdullah I 1882-1951 Emir of Jordan 1923-46 King of Jordan 1946-51 m. Musbah bint Nasser 1885-1961

Jamil 'Ali ?-1938 Sharif of Mecca

Zeid 1898-1970 Pretender as King of Iraq 1958-70

Abdullah 1913-1958 Regent of Iraq for Faisal II 1939-53

Ghazi 1912-1939 King of Iraq 1933-39 m. Aliyah bint Ali 1911-1950

Talal 1909-1972 King of Jordan 1951-52 m. Zein al-Sharaf 1916-1994

Ra'ad 1936- Pretender as King of Iraq 1970-

Faisal II 1935-1958 King of Iraq 1939-58

Hussein 1935-1999 King of Jordan 1952-99

Zeid 1964- Jordanian Ambassador to the UN and USA

[edit] Dispute

Hi Surtsicna, could I get your help with the resolution of this dispute? Thanks, -- Jack1755 (talk) 11:13, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you -- Jack1755 (talk) 14:02, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Taksen is petitioning you on MT's talk page. We can't allow the Archduchess to be subsumed into Taksen's yolk like the poor Grand Duke! -- Jack1755 (talk) 14:25, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Monarch to royalty

Hey. Alright, I don't get why you changed the infobox from "monarch" to "royalty" on David II of Scotland, but it's screwed up some of the info. For instance, it no longer shows that he was Earl of Carrick. So what's the reason? Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 21:26, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, but a recent edit of yours to the article Talk:James I of Scotland has an edit summary that appears to be inaccurate or inappropriate. Please use edit summaries that accurately tell other editors what you did, and feel free to use the sandbox for any tests you may want to do. Thank you. Your edits to the talk page are legitimate, but your edit summary is unhelpful. Some people find the term "bitch" offensive, and this adds an unnecessarily heated tone to the discussion. PatGallacher (talk) 22:14, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Excuse me, what edit summary? I never edited Talk:James I of Scotland. Surtsicna (talk) 22:20, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Hey, I responded on my page ... just letting you know. :) Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 22:25, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

I meant Talk:James I of England. PatGallacher (talk) 00:08, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Margaret of France

I didn't realize the issue with the two Margarets. Feel free to move it back, I suppose, but such odd parenthetical disambiguation is certainly annoying. I suspect most people wouldn't really think of Henry's wife as a "real" queen, since her husband isn't listed on the canonical list of monarchs, but I know historians would. So do as you please. TysK (talk) 23:58, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Hello

Hi Surtsicna, how are you? I've been creating and expanding articles on polish nobility. I've joined the WikiProject:Poland and Royalty and Nobility. You should join the royalty and nobility one. Thanks--David (talk) 14:50, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Maria Theresa of Spain

Hello Surtsicna, I added some comments to the discussion page of "Maria Theresa of Spain" (wife of Louis XIV of France). Perhaps you would like to join since you were also part of the discussion sometime ago. Besides, you seem to be more reasonable than the other person discussing there. Regards, DanyMountbatten (talk) 17:39, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Johanna of Austria

[edit] Maria Theresa

Thanks! And, of course, congrats! You can speak Bosnian? lol. I didn't know that! I think the English MT almost meets FA criteria, All it needs is some alt text for the images. -- Jack1755 (talk) 22:34, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

LOL. Crafty Surtsicna! Ah, I established that after some reasonable snooping around over at the Bosian Wikipedia, Surt', or should I say Amsal? LOL. -- Jack1755 (talk) 23:25, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Walls of Dubrovnik

[edit] Maria

Sorry, I can speak very good German, it would however be handy if the font of the text was readable, it looks like a load of worms. Could she be the daughter of Elizabeth of Serbia, who you said married a certain "Louis". I'll have a look around and get back to you. Did I tell you I've created the article on Elizabeth of Kuyavia's father? Also I've added the banesses to the bosnian royals. Cheers--David (talk) 18:39, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I can't find anything. I'll ask some people about speaking german--David (talk) 18:44, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Anna Maria Luisa, Electress Palatine of the Rhine

Hey Surtsicna! Kako ste? Could I get your opinion on the Medicean-Rhenish legal predicament (as linked above)? Hvala, -- Jack1755 (talk) 02:02, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi Surt'. We haven't heard from you in a while. Are you ok? -- Jack1755 (talk) 19:52, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Glad to hear you're back! It has since been archived, here is the new link: User_talk:Jeanne_boleyn/Archive_5#Anna_Maria_Luisa.2C_Electress_Palatine_of_the_Rhine

-- Jack1755 (talk) 18:42, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Nele Roderburg

Not nameless, but I don't think the family had publicly released the name since the Roderburgs are just very extended members of the Swedish RF. I got it from here via Nobiliana and Hein is usually in contact directly with the families, so it is accurate. Morhange (talk) 11:35, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Imperial and royal titles

Hello and thank you for your reply to my postings. My opinion is that the section you referred me to is vast labour to little effect. Sorry. Headings should be devised on the basis of how a person was known by most people in the period of his or her renown. Thus, "Mary of Teck" may have a certain simplicity to it, but was there never another Mary of Teck? And if not, surely some of the titles devised are ambiguous. "Queen Mary, consort of George V, King of Great Britain" was unique and always will be. To take another example, surely another Elizabeth Woodville is alive today (more likely several), but no one named "Queen Elizabeth, consort of Edward IV, King of England" will ever exist again. And how does the current British consort fair in the titles game? Not "Philip of Greece". "Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh" is rather more posh than "Mary of Teck." And how about "Queen Fabiola of Belgium?" The current practice is inconsistent bordering on chaotic. Again, my apologies if this seems blunt. But I wanted to give you a quick reply. My very best wishes to you for taking this area of discussion seriously. Torontonian1 (talk) 02:13, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Alice of Bourbon Parma is a Spanish Royal as Infanta (Spanish Royal Family Template)

Princess Alicia of Bourbon-Parma is a Spanish Infanta (Princess) by Marriage. See article. Ducal Titles are used in Royal Families Navigation Boxes (Infante Carlos is showed as Duke of Calabria. Alicia has Spanish Royal Status as Infanta. She isn't well-known in Spain and most Spaniards don't know Infanta Alicia.

--Proof02 (talk) 18:04, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Royalty to Monarch

Hello. Did as you suggested. Thanks. --Bill Reid | (talk) 20:40, 18 December 2009 (UTC)