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Contents 1 BC border cat 2 College football categories 3 Category talk:Guineans of Igbo descent - Category Name Change to Equatoguineans of Igbo descent 4 Sorry, what's this all about? 5 AfD nomination of Denialism 6 Huge swathe of speedy renaimings declined 6.1 Input 7 Hi 8 Wrong diff 9 Categories 10 Resp 11 Section 12 Pentecostal Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints which you contributed to, is currently up for deletion 13 Ha 13.1 Ha Ha 14 New messages 15 Deleted Museum category 16 deletion of Category:45 deaths 17 Category:Georgia (country) international footballers 18 Recycle Bin 19 Quick question... 20 CfD nomination of Category:Prisoners sentenced to life imprisonment by Ethiopia 21 Category:Redirect from Alternate Name 22 Fine illustrated books 23 Category:Wines 24 Category:Wines of Apulia 25 Confused 26 cfd stats 27 Re: Category dashes 28 Category:Orlando Magic broadcasters 29 dropouts 30 diplomatic conf subcat 31 Category:Actors appearing in The Bill

[edit] BC border cat

I notice you've added Pope's Peak and Mount Columbia (Canada) to the new "Borders of BC" cat, I went and added some of the marine boundary last night, a few items left there yet to be made (Pearse Canal, A-B Line), but I'm not sure at all that including the mountain peaks studding the border is a good idea, there's just too many of them; but if so, other than the dozens in the Rockies (several dozens, I'd say) there's all the numbered boundary peaks (some of which have names e.g. Mount Nesselrode) as well as numbers and of course Mt Fairweather (the summit of which is actually fully in BC, but most of the mountain itself isn't). The Chilkoot Pass, White Pass etc are also boundary-markers, though I'm not sure if the Hay-Herbert Treaty mentions them specifically; it probably does but I'd have to get out t he fine-tooth comb....; then do we include lakes spanning the border, e.g. Atlin Lake? Teslin Lake? Chilliwack Lake?? I can see the point of the category for things defining the border, but think it would be too cluttered if everything that simply was on the border was to be in it; as it happens, though, the numbered border peaks along hte Alaska frontier do define the border (in treaty/by law); whereas Mt Columbia only happens to be on the Continentnal Divide, and only incidentally is on the BC-AB border, i.e. it's not named as part of it like the 120th Meridian or 60th Parallel or Strait of Juan de Fuca is....Skookum1 (talk) 13:54, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Go crazy. But keep in mind the parent category is Category:Internal borders of Canada. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 21:10, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

But that's not clear from the category title, which is why I've already added Strait of Juan de Fuca, Haro Strait, Pearse Canal etc....as for summits, it maybe would be best if for the Rockies/Continental Divide one a subcat of Category:Canadian Rockies and also of Category:Great Divide of North America and this one would be Category:Peaks and passes on the British Columnbia-Alberta boundary, as there'll be so many. A parallel subcat of Category:Boundary Ranges and (if there is one) Category:Saint Elias Mountains would also be suitable but I haven't given thought to a proper name for it; maybe Category:Boundary peaks and passes of the Alaska-British Columbia border? Bit wordy, but you get the idea... You'll note I took out Taku River from the Canada-US border category, as it's not a river forming the boundary. And I'm taking it as a given that "border towns" on internal borders is a subjective matter; most if not all are, unlike Lloydminster SK/AB, a few miles from the border. e.g. Teslin, Dawson Creek, Sparwood, Field....anyway I think the priority is on grouping the Rockies summits in one subcategory, and also coming to terms with teh fact that the category name does not state internal boundaries of Canada and so must also be a subcat of the Canada-US border cat....Skookum1 (talk) 21:22, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Personally, I would consider a non-internal border of BC to be a border of Canada, but that's just me. I'll set out some category definitions for clarity. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 21:25, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

And to further note that Boundary Ranges peaks which are on the boundary, and are in fact legal definitions of it by treaty, have secondary names like Boundary Peak 71 and Boundary Peak 93 (which are Devils Paw and Devils Thumb, though maybe not respectively); even Fairweather has a "number" like that....I'm unsure if maybe the "Boundary Peaks" category for that area could maybe put the category on a redirect for the "Boundary Peak X" name....or at least somewhere a directory/list of such peaks can be made; NB not all major ones are on the boundary, which does not follow a divide....Skookum1 (talk) 21:28, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Just to note I've created, or started to, List of Boundary Peaks of the Alaska-British Columbia border, which of course needs a bunch of variant-name redirects to go with it; BCGNIS is malfunctioning right now although they're all listed in there as well (though not in CGNDB); the list is incomplete (most is "commented out" until I format it...) and needs to be alphabetized and consolidated a bit....GNIS has two, sometimes three, refs for some peaks i.e. when they have a name as well as a number e.g. Mount London which has a third name, Mount Atlin; all elevation are currently in feet because that's what gnis uses, and the "range/region" is currently the county/borough/CDA, I'll be updating it to subrange/icefield/locality instead once I'm done. This was relatively easy to search, it'll be a lot harder with List of boundary peaks of the British Columbia-Alberta border, which NB is not capitalized "Boundary Peaks" because they're not so-officially titled; there's also actual peaks named Boundary Peak, such as one in Idaho....Skookum1 (talk) 16:57, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I have a question about the list article, but I've left it on the article talk page as that's probably a better place. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 03:10, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] College football categories

I've opened up a discussion that I think you may be interested in participating in. VegaDark (talk) 13:53, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Category talk:Guineans of Igbo descent - Category Name Change to Equatoguineans of Igbo descent

There are three countries in Africa with Guinea as part of their name: 1) Equatorial Guinea, 2) Guinea-Bissau 3) Republic of Guinea. All three countries have distinctly different histories. There is also Papau New Guinea located in South Pacific. This category refers to Guineans of Igbo descent from Equatorial Guinea, thus should have the name Equatoguineans of Igbo descent to clear up any likely confusion. At least, that is what I'm suggesting. Bab-a-lot (talk) 15:29, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

• I'm not sure why you're telling me this. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:34, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Sorry, what's this all about?

Why are you depopulating this category? [1] <>Multi-Xfer<> (talk) 06:30, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Since there seems to be no discussion about this on any talk page or at any associated policy page that I can find, I assume you are being bold. I have reverted you per WP:BRD and initiated discussion at the category talk page. <>Multi-Xfer<> (talk) 06:37, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Occasionally when I see a small category that is obviously one that will be deleted if it went to CfD I will just empty it out. Someone at CfD asked me recently why I didn't do that more often with ridiculous categories instead of formally going through the CfD process. I told the person it was because whenever I do that, someone pops up on my talk page and complains, which forces it into CfD anyway, so it's easier just to start with a formal nomination from the start. I'll have to point my friend to this example as a text book case. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 06:40, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Clearly at least one other person doesn't think it's ridiculous... considering someone (me) created the thing. I find your out-of-hand assumption that it is "ridiculous" to be dismissive and rude. Actually, your entire demeanor is fucking condescending. If you simply must see it deleted, send it to CfD so it can be discussed. <>Multi-Xfer<> (talk) 06:48, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

You're right—if it's created, it must be OK. But fucking condescending? I was shooting more for brutally honest. To each his own descriptor. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 06:54, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Did someone push you down in a mud puddle today or do you always walk around with a big chip on your shoulder? You depopulated a category I created without a single word to me or any attempt at discussion. I couldn't figure out why, so I ask you on your talk page and you immediately cop a big attitude? Your own user page says people may ask you why you do some of the things you do... maybe you should add a footnote that says "only for masochists who enjoy being insulted and spoken down to". <>Multi-Xfer<> (talk) 07:02, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

(Actually yes, that did happen—but that's another story...) I did not intend to offend you, though it appears that I did because I was honest. And because of that I apologise. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 07:04, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

I take no personal offense at someone expressing an opinion regarding content. I took offense at the dismissive response to my query. People generally don't like that so much. :-/ Anyway, as I said, if you think it should be deleted please feel free to CfD it. I welcome a consensus-based decision. Maybe some new options should be added to speedy deletion for categories that don't meet guidelines or something. <>Multi-Xfer<> (talk) 07:18, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry that I came across that way. (I was being dismissive, but it was nothing really to do with you or your inquiry. Mud puddle and all ... ) Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 07:26, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] AfD nomination of Denialism

An article that you have been involved in editing, Denialism, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Denialism (2nd nomination). Thank you.
Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message.

[edit] Huge swathe of speedy renaimings declined

I have declined a huge swathe of renamings here. An objection had been raised, which should trigger a full discussion. Since User:Koavf has acted on the request even though an objection has been made, I do not have the time to make a full listing of the categories, as I have to undo the changes Koavf has implemented pending discussion. I leave it to you to decide how to proceed. I would respectfully suggest that criteria #6 is considered contentious until the current situation is resolved. I apologise for the inconvenience caused. Hiding T 09:51, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

No problem. There have been problems in the past with Koavf doing stuff like that out-of-process. I'm certainly not going to spend the time to nominate them all for full discussions; that's why #6 has existed. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 10:00, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

PS: You do realise, however, that if you deny the renaming you need to remove the cfr-speedy tag from the categories, don't you? Just kidding, you don't have to. But neither do I feel that the nominators should have to. I think those who opposed the renames should be required to, since the nominators were doing nothing that wasn't in conformity with the then-accepted guidelines. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 10:03, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

There's hundreds of changes to revert here. I'd appreciate any help anyone can give, even if that means removing the speedy tags. I'd actually argue that part of nominating a category for speedy is a recognition that if it fails you are prepared to remove the tags, to be honest, and am a bit disappointed you see it otherwise. After all, Wikipedia is not a battleground, yeah? ;) I think criteria 6 is going to have to be reviewed to clarify what it means. I don't have the time to research the history of the criteria, why it was proposed etc right now, but that definitely needs doing. These changes were in no sense un-objectionable, and if they come from an attempt to comply with #6, then there is a flaw with #6. Hiding T 10:15, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I wasn't trying to suggest a battleground attitude; sorry if it came across that way. Overall, I was kind of being flippant. I can revert the ones I nominated, which will be easy enough to just use self-rollback to accomplish. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 20:57, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Input

Appreciate your input at WP:VPP#Disambiguating categories. Thanks, Hiding T 10:32, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Hi

Hi, I noticed that your have removed Category:Member belongs to Crown Prince Party, could you explain to me why? As far as I know, the inter-struggle of CCP is very fierce, at times even deadly, and to understand it we need articles like Tuanpai and Crown Prince Party, kind of party within a party kind of things. Is it OK to create Category:Crown Prince Party and Category:Tuanpai ? Arilang ^talk 18:53, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

My understanding is that calling someone a member of the "Crown Prince Party" carries a negative connotation. I view it essentially as an attack label, and as such would be inappropriate, in my view. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 20:41, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

It may sound like an attack label, but it is not. I have done extensive reading of CCP history, as can be seen here:s:zh:用戶:Arilang1234, and commons:Communist Party of China, which is created by me. I have done major contributions to both zh:wikisource and wiki commons on this topic. To really understand CCP, readers need to understand complex topics such as Comintern and internationl politics. Crown Prince Party and Tuanpai are essential subjects that readers need to know. Plus, it is a open secret that Chinese Communists no longer believe, or know anything called " orthodox Marxist theory" anymore. Arilang ^talk 05:22, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Why then does the second sentence in Crown Prince Party say, "It is not a political party, but an informal, and often derogatory, categorization to signify those benefiting from nepotism and cronyism, by analogy with Crown Princes in hereditary monarchies"? It sounds like a pretty derogatory term to me. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 06:07, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Again, it may sounds like "Derogatory", the point is the Chinese communist just don't care anymore, because the "core value" of the CCP is to stay in power, by hook or by crook, by whatever means, and the catch phrase is "Stability is paramount" zh:稳定压倒一切. If you read Chinese, 压倒一切 literary means "everything else has to be suppressed" . I know it is very difficult for a layman to understand how CCP works, one need to read a lot just to see through the mist. Arilang ^talk 12:58, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't think saying the leaders of the CCP don't care anymore is a good enough reason to apply a derogatory label to them. That's my opinion about this. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 08:30, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Wrong diff

In your list of people's opinions about you, you seem to have accidentally posted the diff to removing the HAravard template twice at 21. as well as at 22. instead of linking to the Anti-Mormon etc quote. Munci (talk) 19:43, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Oh dear, crucial mistake. Thanks, I'll try to fix. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 20:38, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Categories

So as I'm sure you noticed, your CfDs to speedily rename Category:Dynasty characters‎, Category:Dynasty images‎, and Category:Dynasty episode redirects to lists‎ (among others) were declined due to an objection. After your renaming of the main category, I agree with these derivative changes and was going to boldly rename them myself (I created the categories and am probably just about the only one who monitors them) ... until I discovered that categories don't have the Move option (at least for us common schlubs, LOL). As an administrator, do you have that ability? In any case, I'm not an expert on the nuances of such renaming so I don't know whether you feel you need to bring them up in formal CfDs, but should you choose to move/rename them, I'm volunteering to update the related articles, images and redirects using AWB. Thanks.— TAnthony^Talk 20:57, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for contacting me. No, admins can't move them like articles—they have to be deleted and the contents manually moved either by hand or by a bot. Apparently there's developed a dispute as to whether these changes should qualify for speedy moves at WP:CFDS, so if you want them moved you need to use the full WP:CFD proposal method to get them moved. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 20:59, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Resp

Comical or conical? I suppose it could be conical, if we could make the cone into a dunce cap. ... Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 04:01, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Section

Perhaps you'd care to write the details about [2] in a private e-mail (link on my page)? I have this intuitive feeling that this is not stuff for a talkpage. Debresser (talk) 06:52, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Pentecostal Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints which you contributed to, is currently up for deletion

You are welcome to comment in this deletion discussion. Ikip (talk) 08:08, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Ha

[3] - You have to laugh really, don't you? It's rather like it's some kind of comforter for the lad. --Xdamr^talk 01:53, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

I now have enough comic material for a full-length feature. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 01:55, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Hell, I'm adding myself to it... --Xdamr^talk 01:56, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

I have a confession to make. I need to tell someone to get it off my chest. I may as well tell you:

Stunning confession (look only if you dare!)
I broke CfD this afternoon. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:59, 9 November 2009 (UTC)|}

zOMG!!?! What'dya do? Why'd you do it? You finally cracked up under the pressure? What will I do for fun now? (maybe write content, or take up stamp collecting perhaps....) --Xdamr^talk 02:10, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

You can help me edit my full-length feature. Act I, scene i: Good Olfactory, assuming most other Wikipedians to be normal human beings, tries to help out. Hilarity ensues. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:20, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Always a mistake making wild assumptions like that... You know my feelings on Wikipedians - they're like mushrooms, keep them in the dark and feed them on sh*... um, chocolate. (must AGF more...) --Xdamr^talk 02:43, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Heeeeeeeyyyyy ... I think I know someone who you might just get along with quite nicely ... Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:47, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Outrageously high levels of WP:CLUE, that boy - manages to knows what I think 6 months before I think it... (Just wish the sagacious purple monkey would appear a little more often to help the poor fellow out) --Xdamr^talk 03:00, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

You know, all it would take to cause a new round of complaining about admin abuse would be someone like me dropping by to add to this discussion. Er, um.... --Kbdank71 20:43, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Crack on - we're clearly on a roll here... --Xdamr^talk 20:47, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Kbdank, you make it sound as if users actually keep an eye on my talkpage. (Hi, Alansohn!) Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 20:48, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

As of right now you've got 94 people watching your talkpage. I'll be willing to bet my entire WP Admin salary that Alan is one of them. --Kbdank71 21:47, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

How did you calculate that, amazing admin-powers guy? Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 22:01, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

I have amazing admin-powers, how else? Or... click on History. Up at the top there are about four external links, one of them is "Number of watchers". --Kbdank71 01:38, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, I'll be—a tool for everything. Now, what I really want to know if how I can make a good omlette when cooking on a gas stove. Can't get it right. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:14, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Can't help you there. According to my wife, I always burn eggs when I cook them. --Kbdank71 21:56, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Ha Ha

Broke again? Or have I broken you? Did I want to see more relisted and no consensus closes? I may have said something like that, but no, that is not what I really want.

If I can risk being honest, participating in CfDs leaves me feeling out of my depth. It is much harder than diving into AfD, MfD or DRV. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 22:45, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, SmokeyJoe, there is a Santa Claus. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 23:00, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

That's not a response I expected. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 01:48, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] New messages

Hello, I wondered if you might know how to fix a new problem on a page you've edited before. It's at the top of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Pearcy_(activist)

There's an unrelated "new messages (last change)" heading at the top of that page that makes no sense to me. There's no sign of it in the history of revisions, so it's a more advanced edit than I know how to make.

Thank you in advance for any help.70.133.76.98 (talk) 16:32, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

That notice is something that appears on every page you look at when someone leaves a new message on your talk page. Check User talk:70.133.76.98. Someone has left a message based on an edit made by the IP address you are using. If the message doesn't apply to an edit you made, you can ignore it and avoid such problems by creating and using a user name. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 20:33, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Deleted Museum category

Hi Good Olfactory, on August 31 you deleted Category:Local museums in the United States. I find no CfD link to see why. This I found after having created and populated Category:Local museums in the United Kingdom. This is quite consistent with Category:Museums by type. I'd like to start the deleted category as there are enough US Local Museum articles under Category:Local museums to justify its creation. Please, let me know about it. Hoverfish Talk 21:46, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

You can re-create it. It was only deleted because it was empty. See Wikipedia:CSD#C1. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 22:00, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. Hoverfish Talk 22:03, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] deletion of Category:45 deaths

Hi - your edit was in good faith I'm sure. But now when someone updates a date of death for 45 CE, or adds someone who died then, they have to go create the category if they do the job properly. How did your deletion improve Wikipedia in any way? You just are creating extra work for contributors. Geĸrίtzl (talk) 23:16, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

We never pre-create empty categories based on future anticipated need. See Wikipedia:CSD#C1. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 23:18, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. What a stupid rule! You didn't answer my question: How did your deletion improve Wikipedia in any way? Clearly among the exceptions should be years of death and birth. It just created a bunch of extra work for me as I corrected the death of Vardanes. Geĸrίtzl (talk) 23:33, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

My action consisted of applying a rule which allows for the elimination of an empty category. I'm not the ultimate arbiter of how particular rules "improve" WP; such matters are subject to much broader consensus-based discussions and decisions. I suppose you could imagine various scenarios whereby the inability to delete empty categories could be problematic—causing frustration for readers, etc. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 00:19, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your input! Have a nice day... Geĸrίtzl (talk) 00:32, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Georgia (country) international footballers

Hi, I'm the editor who proposed this category for a speedy rename, and I'm going to take it to CfD instead. Can I start the process right awar or do I have to wait 48 hours? Cheers, GiantSnowman 00:38, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

No, you can do it anytime. (The 48 hour thing just means that if no one starts a full discussion the speedy nomination can be removed by an editor from the speedy section after 48 hours.) Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 00:42, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Oh, OK, thanks. Should I remove the speedy notice from the category when I add the CfD one, or leave them both there? GiantSnowman 00:47, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Probably remove the speedy one. Full discussions supercede the speedy listings, so there's not really a reason to keep the speedy tag on there. We can leave a note in the speedy section that the discussion has been moved to full. Do you want to copy the votes listed so far or do you just want to start "afresh"? Probably either way is OK. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 00:48, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

I'll start afresh and notify everyone who !voted about the new discussion. Thanks for all your help, it's much appreciated. Cheers, GiantSnowman 00:52, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Good idea. You can consider me notified. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 00:53, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Recycle Bin

Hi again, here are two museum subcategories I emptied for speedy. The first I created but proved too small to be useful, oh well... Category:Equestrian museums by country. The second was simply against the grain. Subcats of Museums by [Country] are by region, by city, but not by type, so since no other country had this step I bypassed it: Category:Museums in France by type. Thanks. Hoverfish Talk 18:11, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Quick question...

Is there a standard warning template for users who have violated 1RR? If there is, I cannot find it. Cheers! ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 01:52, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't think there is, because unless it is imposed on them, 1RR isn't a mandatory rule that must be followed, so we can't really warn users to follow it. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 01:54, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

I was not clear. There is a 1RR in place on all articles related to the Troubles, and there is a template for warning people when they have violated it. But, it's a moot point, 'cause I found one. Cheers! ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 01:59, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Ah, that issue. Yes, there should be one for that. Sorry I'm not connecting the dots—I should have guessed that's what you meant as I do know you edit Troubles articles. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:00, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] CfD nomination of Category:Prisoners sentenced to life imprisonment by Ethiopia

I have nominated Category:Prisoners sentenced to life imprisonment by Ethiopia (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at the discussion page. Thank you. ♪ daTheisen(talk) 16:12, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Redirect from Alternate Name

Hi - I noticed Category:Redirect from Alternate Name was merged to another category, but I also find myself periodically picking it by accident when using hotcat - since it still shows up as an autocomplete. Do you know if something needs to be changed in hotcat to prevent that from happening, or should we recreate the category as a redirect to the new/merged category? Thanks.  7  07:41, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Hm, I'm not sure about that. I think I've seen hotcat take a few days to reset and register that a deleted category has been deleted, but it should have done so by now with this category since it was deleted over a week ago. I would ask the hot cat guy how this works. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 08:45, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Will do - thanks.  7  08:47, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Fine illustrated books

Hi Good Ol'factory; I have responded to your question as best I can on the category talk page. Cheers. Maias (talk) 04:48, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Thx for responding. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 04:51, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Wines

Someone has emptied Category:Wines, under the misapprehension that it is the same as Category:Wine. I haven't looked all that carefully at the exact edits but suspect someone with admin tools (+ an understanding of categories) might be able to effect some mass roll-back. Naturally I thought of you. (Eg Category:Wine styles should be something like Category:Wines by style, with some pruning/reorganising. Category:Italian wines has been emptied and deleted although we still have Category:Wines of Apulia. Annoying. Just look at the Google cache.) Occuli (talk) 20:05, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm that someone but I don't understand the "misapprehension" part and Occuli, whom I can't immediately recall as an active contributor to our wine-related articles, is most welcome to discuss over at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Wine. Regards, Tomas e (talk) 20:47, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Tomas e, Wikiprojects do not "own" articles and categories, even if they have placed their banner on the applicable talk pages. It's almost always inappropriate to manually empty a category without going through WP:CFD. Occuli, I see that a discussion about these actions has been started here, so maybe I'll hold off doing anything until we see what editors think. If the view is that things should be restored I am more than willing to work on accomplishing that. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 22:35, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

While I agree that Wikiprojects do not own articles and categories, theoretically, project members should have a solid grasp of their subject matter so their input should be viewed in that light. While the input of non-project members can be quite constructive, there is not much progress to be made when their objections are based on faulty understanding of the subject (as Occuli's objection is below). Again, I'm not arguing for ownership of wine articles, but I respectfully ask that people not take a cookie-cutter WP:OTHERSTUFFEXIST approach by take the rules of another subject's categorization (such as Opera) and apply it to wine. When you deal with wine and have a solid understanding of it, it is easy to see when things don't make sense. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 02:32, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Please take comments to the open CfD. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:40, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

If someone makes the claim that the Wine Project is having ownership issues over on the CfD, I certainly will. But it was you, I was responding to. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 02:44, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

What did this have to do with my comment, then?: "I respectfully ask that people not take a cookie-cutter WP:OTHERSTUFFEXIST approach by take the rules of another subject's categorization (such as Opera) and apply it to wine. When you deal with wine and have a solid understanding of it, it is easy to see when things don't make sense". Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:45, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

It was in response partly to your comment but mostly to your previous actions in restoring the category. I was respectfully asking not to take a cookie cutter approach, though I did use Occuli's Opera example from the Cfd but that was just because it was fresh in my mind. :) But anyways, I see that you are tired of the subject so I will let you be. I think I was mostly drawn to your talk page because you're username. I found a good nose to be such an attractive quality in people. :) Agne^Cheese/^Wine 02:55, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm not tired of the topic, I just don't want to be roped into discussing the merits. My action was an administrative action to reverse an action that was taken out-of-process. I have no opinion on what the result of the process should be. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 03:00, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Wines of Apulia

Regarding your edits to Category:Wines of Apulia could I ask you to explain it over at Category talk:Wines of Apulia giving your reliable sources explaining why the Denominazione di origine controllata (DOC) regions, i.e. protected designations of origin, contained therein in this case should be categorized as "wines" and removed from "wine regions". Thank you. Tomas e (talk) 00:49, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

See conversation immediately above and on your talk page. A category was inappropriately emptied (by you). A CfD discussion is now ongoing about this. I've added the category so it won't get deleted again as empty. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 00:51, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

'Brindisi Rosso is a red DOC (Denominazione di Origine Controllata) wine' is quite clear: it is a wine, not a region. If you ask for Brindisi Rosso in a supermarket, you are expecting to purchase a bottle of wine, not an acreage in Italy (sadly). Occuli (talk) 01:08, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Umm....no. It is hard to talk about wine and correct errors without coming across as snobbish, so please don't think I'm speaking ill of you but you are clearly off base here. Denominazione di Origine Controllata or (DOC)s are quality level designations, not specific wines. Within a single DOC there are literally thousands of specific wines that meet the requirements to be labeled with the DOC. One of these requirements is, of course, to be grown within the acreage of land that make up the boundary of the particular DOC. When you go to the supermarket and ask for Brindisi Rosso, you are asking for any number of wines that meet the DOC requirements to be labeled as Brindisi Rosso-not a specific wine. Your statement above is akin to saying that when you go to a ticket agent and ask to see Manchester United, you are asking to see a specific player. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 02:14, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Why is this discussion taking place here? There is an ongoing CfD where these issues can be discussed. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:39, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, because Occuli didn't make his Brindisi Rosso is a "specific wine" statement over on the CfD. :) It would be silly to correct his misunderstanding of wine over there. However, it was important to correct him because it is seems that his good faith objections to Tomas' categorization work is driven, in part, by some misunderstandings about the subject of wine. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 02:42, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I was referring to the entire discussion, not just your comment. You two or three don't need me to mediate your conversation, do you? Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:43, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Confused

Hey there Good Olfactory, I noticed you recently added several categories to WP:CFDW, linking to the discussion from Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2009 February 23. Not sure if there's a mistake or I'm missing something, but I don't see how that adds up; I'm not seeing anything related to those several categories you added to be renamed being mentioned anywhere on that page (then again, I only skimmed it...). — ξ^xplicit 06:33, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2009_February_23#Category:Sports_lore_and_subcategories. The sports "lore" categories. Someone has re-created them, but this time broken down by team. I'm assuming you can't get around a decision this way. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 07:06, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Ahh, the basic recreation, with a twist. Just making sure, thanks for clarifying that. — ξ^xplicit 07:09, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

The creator of these categories—well, let's just say there have been some concerns expressed repeatedly about a lot of his creations. Do you remember the NHL "Minor League Affilates/Fram Teams" categories? Same guy. He's also the same user who was creating a lot of sparsely populated ethnicity categories like Category:British American politicians and the like. I'm a bit at the end of my rope with some of his stuff. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 07:11, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

A lot of the categories he created do appear to be overcategorizaton, even flat out pointless at times (seems to go across the board with articles as well). I think one of the main problems is his execution. As you noted on his talk, he creates several categories at a time and then fails to populate them afterward. I'm pretty sure that gets stressful, especially when you contact the user and get replies that don't answer the question your asking. One can only hope he can grasp the ropes a little better. — ξ^xplicit 07:31, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, a lot of them I have no problem with—but why create a one-item category when it should have dozens or hundreds of entries. I think that's frustrating for readers—worse than not having the category at all. My main concern is he's been unresponsive to inquiries from the very start—not just to me, but to all users. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 07:51, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I did notice that his responses did seem very Sarah Palin-ish; he doesn't answer questions at all most of the time. I'll monitor the user (after some sleep, of course) and see how things go from there. — ξ^xplicit 08:04, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I take it your a Democrat? so am I, but thanks for the compliment. You betcha!--Levineps (talk) 08:09, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

American politics spilling on to my talk page! All right! Abortion! Guns! Health care (i.e., lack thereof)! Earmarks! Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 08:20, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Shoo, that looks like very disturbing answers to a mad lib. "If you perform an ________ (noun) with a whole lot of _________ (plural noun), someone is going to need some pretty darn good _________ (noun), and if your aim is off, you'll just end up with a bunch of ________ (plural noun)". --Kbdank71 20:53, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Ha ha. Mad libs. (wipes tear) Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 21:18, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I do not recall creating NHL articles. I think you cherry pick your points. I helped create seasons, coaches, head coaches, etc which have gotten a lot of acclaim. Also, other people before me had created the race/ethnicity categories for politicians. I still believe that was the right way to go but I have put that behind me. If you have specific suggestions, feel free to tell me. I have spent all night populating the various categories as well as preventing them from overcategorizing(which is huge).--Levineps (talk) 08:07, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

You don't remember—that's not a good sign. But I do have digital red-eye reduction evidence. ("Cherry picking" is an interesting allegation. Would you rather I say all your edits are problematic, or just the ones I actually identify as such?) Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 21:15, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I can't recall all the edits I've ever done, just creating minor league affliates doesn't seem like me at all. I did minor league baseball ones as I am a bigger baseball fan than hockey. I just think you present me in a pretty bad light and don't focus on the total package. On another note, how does a popular culture instead of a culture and lore sound. Look at the Steelers one--Levineps (talk) 21:37, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't think the "in popular culture" ones (or is it just one?) have ever been discussed. The way I create categories is I don't generally create them unless I come across a situation that I think needs categorization. I don't know if there would be enough popular culture articles about sportsteams to justify categories for them. If you're ever creating a category and you get a pink notice on the screen that indicates the category has been deleted before, that's a good sign that you should probably think twice about creating it. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 21:59, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I do avoid creating them, I haven't recreated an article in quite a while. But anyways the Steelers have them and you could probably find the same amount for just about every other major sports team and some division I programs. I think thats a happy medium.--Levineps (talk) 22:02, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I was referring to categories. The pink notice comes up for deleted categories too. I believe the "in popular culture" categories for other topics (countries, cities, etc.) are limited to books, films, TV shows, etc. that involve the thing. They don't apply to what some would call sports "lore", mascots, team songs, etc. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 22:04, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] cfd stats

Nice. I kept track of my own drv numbers, but I was too lazy to figure out how many discussions I closed (you didn't happen to track individual closers, did you?). While I agree that it doesn't show the whole picture, it certainly shows a lot of it. If I had a 99.whatever % when I was in school, I'd have been extremely happy, and anyone who said I was a failure, well, let's just say they probably live in bizarro world. --Kbdank71 19:08, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I didn't pay too much attention to the closers, as I didn't actually link up the DRVs with the actual CFDs. I recognized the ones I had closed—I think one of the 5 "overturns" was mine, and I had a bunch of "endorses" (are you surprised?). It would be fairly easy to check as there were only 33 DRVs, and I have recorded the dates for each. Now that I've done the hard part I might keep an ongoing running total—adding the CFDs and DRVs each month. I need to think up a good table format or something .... Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 20:42, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Nuts. I know which DRV's are mine, but I only have how many endorses per total number of DRV's. I don't have number of DRV's per total number of closes. That would be interesting to know, how close I am to the 99.x overall number. Good idea, though, keeping up with it. Might be something to add to WT:CFD or WT:CFD/W. --Kbdank71 20:48, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Tabulating who closed the 4000+ discussions would be mammoth. It would be a pain to keep up with even on a daily basis. The 0.23% is so tiny that probably many closers have a 100% rate, with a few more active closers (who tend to close more "difficult" cases) hovering around 99.7+%. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 20:54, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Category dashes

Re: User talk:Black Falcon#Category dashes

My primary objective was to have a consensus on the matter so that the "dash versus hyphen" question would not continually come up in CfD discussions. I no longer have a strong preference for either option; for the most part, I'm just glad that the issue is settled … as much as anything on Wikipedia ever can be settled, I suppose. :)

My other goal was to have a speedy renaming criterion for dash-to-hyphen and hyphen-to-dash changes so that such changes—which are supposed to be uncontroversial, at least in theory—would not have to undergo the full 7-day CfD process. I see that criterion C2-7 takes care of that.

Thanks (and hi again after several weeks), –BLACK FALCON ^(TALK) 22:01, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, and welcome back. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 05:48, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Orlando Magic broadcasters

Dear Mr or Ms. Factory, Any chance we can keep that category. Notice I didn't even start this category the last time it was tried to be reincarnated. Every other NBA team has a broadcasters category. I think it would be very appropriate.--Levineps (talk) 23:12, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

What a coincidence, I just started a discussion to determine what the present attitude was towards the newly-created announcers-by-team categories. The Orlando one was deleted in the past, but they haven't been discussed in the context of an existing "scheme". Hopefully we can find out in the coming week what users think. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 23:19, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I can't tell if your being condescending to me or not?--Levineps (talk) 17:08, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

No, I am not. I started the discussion in good faith, just prior to your comment here. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 20:02, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] dropouts

I discussed the high school dropout situation in the BLPN noticeboard and nobody said it was prohibited. But based on that, I think a kinder way of saying things might be "Notable persons who did not complete high school" rather than dropout. Why did you delete the category so fast? Just curious. Suomi Finland 2009 (talk) 16:15, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

The category has been discussed and deleted twice at CFD, as linked on deletion notice. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 20:03, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Oh, sorry, I did not know. I didn't see any warning to that effect. It seems that at least 3 people have independently thought of the same thing. Suomi Finland 2009 (talk) 20:28, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Each has had a slightly different name with respect to capitalization, etc., so users who are re-creating under the new name are not seeing that it was deleted before. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 20:29, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

I see the CFD. It is more than 2 years old. However, I am in no mood to campaign for the category. It is a bit negative and the last thing I want to do is to smear people. That violates the spirit of BLP. That's not to say that we should censor bad information but needless smearing is not good. BLP is one of the most important policies of WP. Mr. Jimbo Wales said so and rightly so. Suomi Finland 2009 (talk) 20:39, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

This one is more recent, and the same basic idea. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 21:02, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] diplomatic conf subcat

Hi. Thanks for your help with the new sub-categories for diplomatic conferences by century. Appreciate it. that was fast! With your help and all your other recent efforts, this category is really starting to look better. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 21:52, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi. uhhh, hmmm. actually, that was more than great, that was kinda unbelievable. :-) how did you do that? do you have some kind of software like twinkle or something which lets you populate categories really fast? never saw that before. whatever that wasm, that was really great. thanks!!! --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 21:55, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

never mind, just figured out. :) thanks! (saw the following entry: 17:43, 23 November 2009 Good Olfactory (talk | contribs) m (4,956 bytes) (Quick-adding category 20th-century diplomatic conferences (using HotCat)) (undo) ) thanks! --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 21:57, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Happy to do this; was on my eventual to-do list, so when I saw them created, I thought I may as well. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 23:14, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Actors appearing in The Bill

It is generally considered due diligence to notify the creator of something you're nominating for deletion. HJMitchell You rang? 06:24, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

It's considered a courtesy, but I don't think "due diligence" has anything to do with it. However, I've had too many incidents of users criticising me for doing so because they are mad that I've nominated "their" category in the first place. Tired of getting yelled at through text. So now I assume if users care about a page, it will be on their watchlists, and since the category is tagged for discussion, it serves as notice. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 06:27, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

That's hardly an attitude for an administrator to take- admins are supposedly held to a higher standard. I was assuming good faith but that sounds suspiciously like an attempt to get rid of pages you don't like through the back door. HJMitchell You rang? 07:46, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

(Sigh.) No offence, but it doesn't require a "back door" to get rid of a category that is the same type as literally hundreds of other categories that have been previously deleted, so it's unlikely that's my motive. You look good up there on your high horse, by the way. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 07:50, 24 November 2009 (UTC)