[edit] hadith collections
imam ahmad's musnad should be listed, it is one of the earliest and most comprehensive collections, and its system of cataloging ahadith set precedent for all the other collections. definitely important. 72.70.30.158 (talk) 05:29, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Ahmadi
Ahmadi is not a shool of thought in Sunni Islam. In fact they are not considered muslims at all. → AA (talk) — 04:58, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
- They're not considered Muslims by 'Muslim' scholars, however in any secular or encyclopedia resource you'll find the under the label of Islam. And according to Wikipedia rules I believe, if the group considers themselves something, we must consider them that to an extent as well. Not so far as labeling Mormons as Jews, but enough to allow sects such as the Ahmadiyya to be called Muslim. However, Ahmadiyya mainly does not have its place on this template for two reasons: they see themselves as essentially a movement that surpasses most likely the bounds of both Sunni Islam and Shi'ah Islam (though it doesn't), and second, Ahmadiyya is neither a school of fiqh nor a school of qalam as we have listed here. However, in order to rectify this and other problems, I made a new section for 'movements'. --Enzuru 00:51, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
- I believe WP:UNDUE would apply in this case. It is reasonable for the opinions on whether Ahmadiyyas are considered Muslim to be made in the article on Ahmadiyya (and maybe to an extent on general Islam articles). However, when things are drilled down into the actual differences (e.g. Sunni/Shia or Fiqh), then the criteria for entry into that classification must be adhered to. Are there any sources which support the view that Ahmadiyyas are Sunnis? → AA (talk) — 21:18, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
- as i said in the edit summary, i don't think there's a single source that claims Ahmadiyya is a part of Sunnism (i don't believe that even the Ahmadiyya themselves claim this). attribution of Ahmadiyya to Sunnism looks like a case of WP:FRINGE/WP:REDFLAG. ITAQALLAH 09:09, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
- I will research this further, but keep the following in mind, that the mainstream Ahmadiyya accept the first four Rashidun khilafat as well as tend to cite Sunni books of hadith (such as here on a Lahori website: http://www.muslim.org/islam/bukhari-corr.htm) and even claim that Bukhari and Muslim are the most accurate books (from an Ahmadiyya booklet online: "Judged on the basis of accuracy, the two most authentic books are Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim") . Their current khilafat continues the khilafat of the first four, not necessarily the entire khilafat Ummayad and on. I understand this is all debatable and so forth, so will look for an Ahmadiyya source where they claim to be in the folds of Sunnism. --Enzuru 22:53, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
- For the record, I think the current version of the template looks perfect. It's short, concise, and avoids any controversy. Just my two cents, good work guys. MezzoMezzo 04:16, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] What is Sunnism? (rhetorical question)
So, if one goes to the Shi'ah template, or the Ismaili one, or the Alevi one, one sees right away how these groups differ from other Muslims. But what about Sunnis? Like the other templates, the stuff under 'beliefs' is so general most of it applies to every other group. There needs to be something that points out the belief in the sahaba, their uprightness, the rashidun caliphs, and the conflicts of the sahaba between themselves.
The problem? Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Sunni_Islam&diff=135335163&oldid=135335015 Anything about these issues is Sunni-Shia oriented. Now, that's true, they are very Sunni-vs-Shia oriented. But how can we avoid that, after all, that's what we're basically comparing to? I agree, we need to state what makes Sunnism unique without making it sound like we're purposely comparing with the second biggest branch, but how do we go about doing that? --Enzuru 05:06, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
- I think this discussion is more appropriate for Talk:Sunni Islam rather than this template. → AA (talk) — 07:46, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
- You might be right, I just have a weird habit of organizing a template first and then using it as a checklist of what needs to be done. We'll move the discussion to there then. --Enzuru 08:39, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
- Sunnism may be used to describe both jurisprudential positions as well as creedal ones. on the jurisprudential side, it refers to using the divine legal sources and applying the understanding of the early Muslim generations. this is typically presented as the four extant legal schools. on the creedal side, it usually means recognition of `aqidah at-tahawiyya, which is accepted by all Sunnis. ITAQALLAH 12:24, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Salafism
I would like to know why isnt Salafi under the four schools of thought in the template. Moshin (talk) 18:30, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
- It is a movement, not one of the four schools of Sunni fiqh. --Enzuru 21:24, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
- This is incorrect. There are many 'schools of fiqh' not only four. 209.94.209.206 (talk) 16:15, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
- There have been many schools of fiqh, some of which have died out. However, Salafism is not a school of fiqh! ناهد/(Nåhed) speak! 21:17, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Design
I think the design for the Sunni template is very bland and dull. The Islam template, Shia template, Ismailism template, Ali template, Muhammad template, and Islamic Culture template are all much better designed and aesthetically pleasing than the Sunni one. What does everyone think? I believe the design should be changed. --Stallions2010 (talk) 23:18, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
- I've been coming up with ideas for a while now. The issue I'm running into is that historically, there has been very little art that is specifically "Sunni Islam" art, unlike there has been for Islam, Shi'a Islam, Ismailism, Ali, Muhammad, and other things. If I put up calligraphy of Abu Bakr, it wouldn't be correct. The best thing I've figured so far was calligraphy of the four Rashidun, so I played around with that. First attempt wasn't so good, so hopefully I'll try again. Any suggestions would be wonderful. --♥pashtun ismailiyya 23:32, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks! Sounds like a good idea. I think you're right - the four rashidun are the only distinct form of Sunni art that I can think of, as well. Any idea when the new template might be done? --Stallions2010 (talk) 23:30, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
The Salafi and Wahabi movement not different.Wahabism is name given to Modern Day salafis by Scholars around the world.There is also discussion on merging both these topics.They cant be mentioned separately.Shabiha (t) 17:56, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
The term Salafi is from SALAF (Arabic for predecessors, the rightful predessors in shariah's terms) Salafis are termed Wahabi's by Sufis, another name for Salafis is Ghair Muqalled as they do not follow a specific imam blindly while Sufis have many orders called Tareeqah and they on the other hand mostly adhere to one school of fiqh / imam out of the four (hence termed Muqallid) but are divided further. Muqallids (blind followers of these 4 schools and their subdivisions like Deobandia) all have their own books of Fiqh.
The real difference in Sufis and Salafis is the Aqeedah (beleif) e.g. sufis believe Allah's presence in everyone, everything and everywhere while Salafis reject this. Sufis mainly believe that all the Rightful prophets are as much alive (in their graves and are being taken care of for their worldly needs like food etc) as we are in this world now and many more. Salafis also differ in matters other than Aqeedah and the difference is lesser or greater as per the school the Muqallids follow. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.71.4.211 (talk) 06:27, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
