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[edit] Other notable leagues

There are several other notable summer leagues around the world. Should these be added to the template, and if so, how?

Honkbal Hoofdklasse (Netherlands)
Korean Baseball Organization (South Korea)
Serie A1 (Italy)
Chinese Baseball League (China)
Chinese Professional Baseball League (Chinese Taipei/Taiwan)

Rolando 23:31, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Added now. FJM 13:56, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Let's not forget Cuban National Series. Probably more important than the other 5.--DaveOinSF 14:03, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Added to Winter Leagues section (though it's "amateur", strictly speaking). Rolando (talk) 19:23, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

The league is amateur.. it therefore should not be listed under "professional baseball"Spanneraol (talk) 19:34, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] What constitutes a "notable" defunct league?

I recently added all defunct major leagues to this list -- National Associaton (1871-75), Union Association (1884), and Players League (1890) -- to the two that were already on the list (American Association and Federal League). Since then, two defunct minor leagues have been added to the list.

The question I have is this: are the two defunct minor leagues (the Eastern Carolina League and the Virginia League) considered "Notable" for the purposes of this template, or should we expand the categories?

There could be "Defunct Major Leagues", "Defunct Minor Leagues", "Defunct leagues -- Other", or some other scheme.

The Negro Leagues are in reality several (at least six) distinct leagues, all of them (obviously) defunct, and might belong in their own category with each individual league listed; foreign (non-American) baseball leagues could have their own category, minor leagues another, etc.

Should this template be expanded? Should we restrict what goes into "Notable defunct leagues"? Should we leave well enough alone? --- Couillaud 18:26, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

There are dozens of defunct minor leagues. If all were added to the template, it would become unmanageably large. My opinion is that defunct minor leagues should not be regarded as sufficiently "notable" to be included on the template, and that the link to Negro Leagues should remain as a single link. BRMo 03:02, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This is bigger than Wrigley Field

Any chance this should be cut down? --Howard the Duck 12:03, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding size

Please direct discussion here.--Borgarde^talk 10:40, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Claxton Shield

Where does the Claxton Shield fit into this template? It's obviously not a major league but I can't decide whether to put it in the 'minor leagues' or with 'other leagues'. Any thoughts? Bongomanrae 13:56, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

From reading the article on it, the Claxton Shield seems to be some sort of tournament rather than a fullfledged league. Probably shouldn't be included. Spanneraol 14:28, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Winter leagues - affiliated or independent?

Currently the template shows the Venezuelan Professional Baseball League as affiliated, but the Dominican Winter Baseball League and the Liga Mexicana del Pacífico are shown as independent. My understanding had been that all three leagues were affiliated with Major League Baseball. Although I haven't found a source that clearly says they're affiliated, strong circumstantial evidence is the fact that all three leagues (along with the Arizona Fall League and Hawaii Winter Baseball) are featured on the MLB Website [1] and that MLB and affiliated minor league players play in all three leagues. Is there any contrary evidence suggesting that they are actually independent? BRMo (talk) 00:02, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Major"

What exactly defines an international league as major? Why is Taiwan considered Major, but not China? Is there some relationship between MLB and these international leagues? -- χγʒ͡ʒγʋᾳ (talk) 19:36, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Template should be restructured, i.e. "Major"

What constitutes Major? For example, NPB dominates the Asia region, and the CPBL is of a lower standard. So should it be renamed to something like, "Top-level international leagues". Or something to indicate the leagues are the top in that area? If you have any suggestions, please post them.--Borgarde^talk 09:37, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, according to Major North American professional sports leagues, "Major professional sports league, or simply major league, is the term used in North America to refer to the highest professional division in any team sport." I would extrapolate that any league purported to to be "major" should not be shown to be consistently bettered by any other league in its sport. If all the best players in the sport go to one of the leagues eventually, then that is the major league of that sport. By this definition, only two professional baseball organizations could even make a claim to be major: MLB (no doubt), and Nippon Professional Baseball (which still hosts most of the best players in Asia). Japan may or may not be of similar quality to MLB (my guess is that it would be somewhere around the AAAA classification of the old Pacific Coast League), and this will not be really known unless there is significant competition between MLB and NPB clubs, but I think most can see a big gulf in quality between MLB/Japan and all other leagues.

Another way we could go about this is finding any recognition amongst the leagues. Major leagues tend to agree not to pillage each other's talent, and I believe MLB and NPB have such a formal agreement. I'm not sure about the other leagues. I have a feeling that MLB consciously tries to avoid labeling any foreign league as either major or minor.

I might support diving this template into two sections: one for Asia, and one for the Americas (and perhaps a third for Other, that is, Europe, Australia, etc.). In baseball, the two hemispheres have little mixing, but there are significant relationships within each hemisphere. Then we could avoid having to impose the Western concepts of Major league, AAA league, etc., onto Asian baseball. I think I'll begin a test of this concept at Template:Professional Baseball/Regional. Any help/ideas are much appreciated. -- χγʒ͡ʒγʋᾳ (talk) 23:06, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

That test template you've made looks good. I'd support something like that, I think it's better to group regionally than try to define quality wise. Thanks for having a look. --Borgarde^talk 08:31, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hawaii: Oceania vs Americas

Last October User:Jcmenal moved the (now-defunct) Hawaii Winter Baseball link in the template from the Americas section to the Oceania section, on the grounds that "Hawaii is not located in the Americas". On two separate occasions, my self and another user have reverted that change, on the grounds that as a US state, Hawaii has no separate international presence in baseball, and should be grouped with other US-based leagues. On both occasions, Jcmenal has reverted those changes. I wanted to get others' input on this and see where they believe the Hawaii link should be located.

For myself, I believe that Hawaii, being a full US state, with no distinct citizenship, should be with other US-based leagues. Hawaii is not merely an overseas territory that boasts its own national teams, but a full part of the US. All Hawaiian citizens are US citizens, and are free to move anywhere in the US, and vice-versa. And, specifically here, Hawaii Winter Baseball was a Major League Baseball-funded league, akin to the Arizona Fall League. I don't believe separating the two is justified. oknazevad (talk) 22:14, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

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