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Contents 1 Worldwide view 2 Range map 3 Does the average English speaker think that the range of the word, squirrel, is restricted to the genus Sciurus? 4 Article content and title 5 White Squirrels and other abnormalities 6 Longevity 7 {{editsemiprotected}} 7.1 {{editsemiprotected}} 7.2 {{editsemiprotected}} 7.3 {{editsemiprotected}} 7.4 {{editsemiprotected}} 8 Predatory Squirrels 9 WikiProject Rodents 10 Prevost's Squirrel 11 terrritory 12 Red/Grey hybrid 13 Can someone post info on article and reply here when done?

[edit] Worldwide view

While there have been - evidently unresolved - discussions over what this article actually should cover (see this; also worth noting that a merge tag remains on Sciuridae), the fact remains that it, no matter how you look at it (all members of Sciuridae [in which case these two articles should be merged], Sciurini [in which case these two articles should be merged] or only species where "squirrel" is an actual part of the name), this article lacks a worldwide view, as there, in all options I can think of, still would be a majority of species found outside USA/Canada. In fairness, of course, there currently is a brief mention of squirrels in Britain, and a very brief mention of species found elsewhere in the intro, but that barely broadens the overall perspective. Where are all the African, Neotropical and Asian species? If someone think there should be an article largely about US/Canadian species, it should be on "Squirrels of USA and Canada" or something like that ("North America Squirrels" might also be a good idea, but then people should remember the numerous species from Mexico & Central America). Regardless, the current squirrel article remains problematic. • Rabo³ • 02:14, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm a US English speaker on the west coast and the idea that ground squirrels weren't just as much squirrels as tree squirrels surprised me. In common usage of the term squirrel, I think many English speakers would see every member of Sciuridae as a squirrel except the marmots and the prairie dogs that he might see as members of the squirrel family but not necessarily squirrels. The point is that in my experience as an English speaker there is an almost complete overlap between the word squirrel and a member of the Sciuridae family. So based on that I would reluctantly agree with the above that the articles should be merged. But I enjoyed both articles and I wouldn't like to see the flavor of either article lost. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Davefoc (talk • contribs) 18:18, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

This is best solved on the disambiguation page. Meet me at the squirrel (disambiguation) Discussion page and we'll sort this out in a general way quite quickly. We may or may not need an umbrella article called "squirrel" at all. Chrisrus (talk) 00:10, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Range map

Here is a national geographic range map of squirrels: [1] It would be quite easy to copy this map and add it to this page, using the Template:Taxobox travb (talk) 18:15, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree the distribution map would add something to the article but wouldn't the use of the map be a copyright violation? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Davefoc (talk • contribs) 18:23, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Does the average English speaker think that the range of the word, squirrel, is restricted to the genus Sciurus?

This sentence was added:

In the English-speaking world, squirrel commonly refers to members of this family's genera Sciurus and Tamiasciurus, which are tree squirrels with large bushy tails, indigenous to Asia, the Americas and Europe

This could be true, it is different than what this 59 year old native English speaker understands the word to mean. However it is consistent with the first definition given in some dictionary definitions. One problem with those definitions is that the average English speaker probably doesn't know the difference between a genus and a phylum so the idea that the average English speaker has some kind of formal taxonomic definition in mind when he uses the word strikes me as problematic.

I think the genera mentioned was an attempt to describe what matches what the average English speaker thinks of as a squirrel, it doesn't imply he is consciously using the genera as a guideline. Also, I think there are two "squirrel" usages here. There is what one might think of a generic squirrel (which will depend on where one lives...grey, red, etc), then there are things one might see as kind of squirrel but require special qualification (flying, ground, etc.). I think that quote attempts to capture the former.--Ericjs (talk) 05:52, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

An on-line National Geographic article uses the word in the way that suggests they don't see it as in anyway restricted to a particular genus.
From http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/mammals/squirrel.html:

Squirrels are familiar to almost everyone. More than 200 squirrel species live all over the world, with the notable exception of Australia. The tiniest squirrel is the aptly named African pygmy squirrel—only five inches (thirteen centimeters) long from nose to tail. Others reach sizes shocking to those who are only familiar with common tree squirrels. The Indian giant squirrel is three feet (almost a meter) long.

Maybe this is a west coast/east coast thing or maybe it's a European/American/Canadian English speaker difference that I wasn't aware of.

I notice that there are not any native ground squirrels in Massachusetts and perhaps not on the American and Canadian East coasts and ground squirrels don't seem to occur in the UK. Does that mean that speakers from these areas tend to limit their ideas of squirrels to tree and flying squirrels? Maybe. My thought though is that if they came to the North American west coast and saw a California ground squirrel they would just see it as a squirrel that lived in a burrow instead of a tree. However, I suspect that the average English speaker may or may not see Marmots, prairie dogs and chipmunks as squirrels. They might see them as members of the squirrel family but I doubt that they would see those animals as squirrels without some thought.

In summary, maybe the sentence is OK, it does say "commonly refers to" which doesn't mean that the word, squirrel, doesn't commonly refer to a wider range of animals also. Perhaps the sentence could be amended to something like this:

In the English speaking world the word squirrel commonly refers to arboreal squirrels (genera Sciurus, Syntheosciurus and Tamiasciurus) and flying squirrels but squirrel also is used commonly to refer to most members of the squirrel family (Scuidae).

Davefoc (talk) 18:40, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

• When someone says "squirrel" you think of ... (wait for it)... a squirrel. I could see confusing a chipmunk for a squirrel, but a marmot? I don't think so (at least not the fat waddling marmots we have where I live). Perhaps in the scientific community this is the case, but in the world at large, "squirrel" refers to squirrels. Beeblebrox (talk) 18:53, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

In British English there is certainly no restriction of "squirrel" as suggested. Squirrels to us include tree squirrels, ground squirrels, chipmunks, flying squirrels etc – though in fact you are right Davefoc, we do only get tree squirrels here. In general use "squirrel" includes the whole family Sciuridae. And yes, of course marmots and chipmunks are squirrels. If this claim is true anywhere, we need to say where – with refs to support it. Richard New Forest (talk) 18:57, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

What I meant is that scientifically marmots may be a member of the squirrel family, but this article is about the specific animals commonly referred to as squirrels. Of course the association between these animals should be mentioned, but we have seperate articles on the marmot, chipmunk, and prarie dog so there's no need to cover them here other than a mention of their relation to the common squirrels. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:03, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

I was not talking scientifically, but about common usage in Britain. "Squirrel" is the BrEng common name for any member of the squirrel family. We need a clear ref for any different interpretation – which (if true anywhere) must surely be a local dialect form. If I'm right about that, the following text would cover it: "in some regions the word 'squirrel' may be restricted to tree squirrels". Richard New Forest (talk) 12:27, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi, Beeblebox, I agree, I think. And what I said above agrees I think: They [average English speakers] might see them [marmots, prairie dogs and chimpmunks] as members of the squirrel family but I doubt that they would see those animals as squirrels without some thought.

My issue was whether the average English speaker would not see ground squirrels such as the California ground squirrel as squirrels. In my west coast world I have never heard them referred to as anything but squirrels. Until I spent a bit of time editing the wikimedia pages on squirrels I wasn't aware that the ground squirrels and tree squirrels were as far apart taxonomically as they are. But I didn't know that marmots were even in the squirrel family until I read about it.

I was making the above comments as Richard New Forest was making his. I think his input as a British English speaker is valuable and it seems like Beeblebox was just objecting to the inclusion of marmots and prairie dogs as squirrels in this article. As I noted above, this English speaker didn't even realize that marmots were part of the squirrel family until fairly recently. Perhaps my words most members of the Scuridae family is what beeblebox objected to. I used the word most rather than all because I was thinking of the marmots and prairie dogs. Perhaps my suggested sentence could be amended to:

In the English speaking world the word squirrel commonly refers to arboreal squirrels (genera Sciurus and Tamiasciurus for instance) and flying squirrels but squirrel also is used commonly to refer to most members of the squirrel family (Scuidae). Although, many English speakers would not see Marmots and Prairie dogs (which are placed in Scuridae) as squirrels.

I agree with Richard New Forest that some references are required for the above. I think that they can be found.Davefoc (talk) 19:17, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

It is probably worth pointing out that this article has an image of a golden-mantled ground squirrel in it.Davefoc (talk) 19:31, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

• I grew up the midwest, and there a variety of tree squirrels there. When I moved to Alaska, I noticed the squirrels were smaller, but it took me a while to realize that most of them were ground squirrels. Of course that's just me. I noticed the mantled squirrel, that looks an awful lot like a chipmunk to me. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:48, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Article content and title

We are getting a little bogged down with the word "squirrel". The principle in Wikipedia is for each article to be about one "thing". We then decide what the best name is for that thing. Looking at this and related articles, it becomes clear that we have duplicate articles:

• Squirrel, this article. Either about all squirrels or only about tree squirrels.
• Sciuridae, the squirrel family.
• Tree squirrel

The first of these three must be a duplicate of one of the others, and at the moment it looks clear to me that we need at least one merge. What about splitting the current article (squirrel) into the other two, leaving a dab for the two dialect meanings of the word "squirrel". Any other thoughts? I see that there is already a merge tag on Sciuridae proposing a merge of that into squirrel, but there is no corresponding tag on squirrel, nor a discussion section here on the merge. Richard New Forest (talk) 12:27, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I think you are addressing what is the more significant issue Richard New Forest. The title of an article about Sciuridae (squirrel family) should be titled Sciruidae, so I think the general Sciuridae stuff that is relevant and not redundant in this article should be merged into the Sciuridae article.

After that somebody needs to figure out what this article should be about if it has a purpose at all. Some possibilities:

• A short article discussing the range of the world squirrel (your dialect meaning article essentially I think).
  
• An article restricted to tree squirrels (Maybe covering tribis Sciurini (Sciurus,Syntheosciurus, Tamiasciurus, etc.)). ETA: I just reread Richard New Forest's comments and realized that this article already existsTree squirrel. So if anything the tree squirrel specific parts of this article that arent' redundant and that are relevant should be merged into the tree squirrel article.
  
• An article focused more on the human/squirrel interactions such as pets, hunting of them, pests and pest control, and their use as food.

I just noticed that there is a sister wikipedia for "simple English". Apparently the idea is to create a Wikipedia aimed at younger readers or readers looking for a simpler handling of topics than is typical of the English Wikipedia. Maybe some of this article would have use there.

One thing that should happen is that the authors of the Sciuridae article need to be brought into this discussion. I think I'll post a note over there that a discussion about the fate of the Squirrel article and a possible merge with Sciuridae has started here.Davefoc (talk) 18:47, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Wow, I had no idea there was a Sciruidae article. Given the overlap these two articles should be merged. I think we should combine these two, but split off all content specifically on tree squirrels and ground squirrels into their own articles, leaving the main article as a general overview and a disambiguation page. If anyone has any template crafting skills, there are enough articles here for a navbox template between the articles on squirrels, prairie dogs, and marmots. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:49, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I guess I missed that there are already several navboxes, maybe too many. They can be seen at the bottom of Sciuridae Beeblebrox (talk) 21:57, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

According to MSW3, EOL, ADW and TOL Sciuridae are known as squirrels. Therefore, Sciuridae should be merged into this article and there should either be a hatnote or a sentence in the lead (like the one at the moment) that mentions the use of squirrel to refer to tree squirrels and ground squirrels. Squirrel (disambiguation) should link to Squirrel, mentioning the article is about the genus, tree squirrels and ground squirrels. If there is no opposition I will merge the articles in the next few days. Jack (talk) 21:27, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea. Also, making the dialectal discussion of "Squirrel" the disambiguation page is perhaps the best option. Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits) 02:31, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

That sounds good to me Jack. The idea has been around long enough and there hasn't been any significant objection I think. What we lacked was a volunteer.Davefoc (talk) 04:07, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] White Squirrels and other abnormalities

Not mentioned is a small colony of white squirrels living in Trinity-Bellwoods Park in Toronto Ontario Canaada (a small nearby street has even been named after them, White Squirrel Way). Debate exists as to whether these are true albinos or if their appearance is due to a different genetic mutation. While black squirrels with white tips are mentioned in the article, I have not seen these but have seen many, many black squirrels with rust-coloured fur on their back ends that varies in colour (sometimes lighter, sometimes darker) and extension (sometimes appearing on only the tips of the tails, sometimes extending halfway up the body).

Also not mentioned in the article are grey squirrels with ringed tails, which have recently been identified in Toronto and across the United States (New York, New Jersey, California, Louisiana, Missouri, Minnesota, Washington, South Carolina; see the second update and the comments to the blog posted here: http://sisu.typepad.com/sisu/2004/08/_western_kentuc.html). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.15.65.66 (talk) 14:05, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Longevity

No indication of squirrel longevity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.204.253.130 (talk) 09:15, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] {{editsemiprotected}}

There is a large population of white squirrels here on the campus of Western Kentucky University. You can contact pretty much anyone at WKU to confirm this ... www.wku.edu.

Thanks, Brad Hornal bradhornal@hotmail.com

[edit] {{editsemiprotected}}

Disregard the WKU comment. It is mentioned later in the article. I have seen two albino squarrels in Eau claire WI. Illinois holds the worlds largest natural albino colony in the world. There is a distance of decay that is associated with the locations of WI &IL —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.28.184.236 (talk) 13:46, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] {{editsemiprotected}}

Disregard the WKU comment. It is mentioned later in the article.

[edit] {{editsemiprotected}}

The last sentence reads: Under British law, the eastern grey squirrel is regarded as vermin, and it is illegal to release any into the wild; any caught must be either destroyed or kept captive.

The law on this has changed and squirrels can be release under licence: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article3378581.ece —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.107.106.65 (talk) 11:00, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] {{editsemiprotected}}

This reference is out of date (page not found error) - cite web | author=Susan Saliga | title=Backyard Squirrel Feeding Tips | work=Wisconsin Squirrel Connection | url=http://home.wi.rr.com/frettchen/BACKYARD%20SQUIRREL%20FEEDING%20TIPS.htm | accessdate=2007-02-07

This seems to be the updated correct url - http://wisquirrelrehab.com/BACKYARD%20SQUIRREL%20FEEDING%20TIPS.htm Garybhuang (talk) 21:22, 24 April 2009 (UTC) Done

I have updated the article with the accurate UK squirrel law and the broken URL noted above. –Megaboz (talk) 02:17, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Predatory Squirrels

Is there anyone else that thinks the "predatory squirrel behavior" section should be moved to the Wikipedia article about Thirteen-lined ground squirrels? It makes it sound like all squirrels are vicious killers when most squirrels only eat the occasional grasshopper due to hunger. It's good information. I just think it's in the wrong place. I'm not going to move it without consensus though. What do you guys think? Maurajbo (talk) 00:20, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree. It is worth mentioning that some squirrels are carnivorous, but the article goes into too much detail about the eating habits of one particular type of predory squirrel. –Megaboz (talk) 02:12, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

The grey squirrel commonly found in Britain is frequently carnivorous, regularly eating eggs and nestlings of birds as well as other small animals it can catch. The red squirrel also does this. It looks to me as if the examples given are particular studies of more general squirrel behaviour, rather than descriptions of two (not one) exceptionally predatory species. It therefore looks to me as if that material does belong here.

However, the stuff about the dog is not supported by the ref and looks highly exaggerated at the very least (perhaps one or two squirrels were chewing on a dead dog, but many squirrels did certainly not kill a large dog and carry off parts of the carcase!). I don't think it tells us much about the diet of squirrels generally, so I've removed it. Richard New Forest (talk) 09:48, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Rodents

This is a notice to inform interested editors of a new WikiProject being proposed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Rodents --ΖαππερΝαππερ ^Babel_Alexandria 02:05, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Prevost's Squirrel

(Callosciurus prevosti) "Provost Squirrel is also known as the tricolored squirrel, the prevost's squirrel is strikingly colored, with black, white, and reddish-brown bands down the length of the animal." ^[1] The provost squirrel is usually found in the lowland forests of Borneo and Thailand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Em299207 (talk • contribs) 14:10, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

This species is covered by its own article: Prevost's Squirrel (Callosciurus prevostii). I don't think it needs a mention in Squirrel, does it? Richard New Forest (talk) 15:06, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] terrritory

I was wondering how far a person needs to haul a squirrel away to keep it away? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.228.124.67 (talk) 23:19, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm no expert, but I've faced this problem before. A couple of miles ought to do it. They aren't big homing animals and probably won't be back unless there's just no where else for them to go. They are most concerned with getting food, it seems, and other squirrelly things, which doesn't seem to include getting back to their home territory. I'm talking about Eastern Grays. Chrisrus (talk) 02:48, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Red/Grey hybrid

Can Red Squirell and Grey Squirells cross breed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.65.185.184 (talk) 17:38, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

If you're talking of the two species found in Britain, no, but I've heard the suggestion that male grey squirrels may chase male reds away from the female reds. Richard New Forest (talk) 18:03, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

We live in central Ontario and have both black, grey and red squirrels and have observed the black squirrels for several years sitting on a stone pathway, selecting a stone after checking out several and then heading either to our septic bed to bury the stone or out into the bush and then returning later for more. There does not seem to be any food cache where they leave the stones. Is the behaviour usual and why do they do it.? Have other people observed it? mijco@hotmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.59.173.42 (talk) 17:57, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Can someone post info on article and reply here when done?

How much do they stay in their nests to conserve body heat in the winter? Thanks. Imagine Reason (talk) 18:34, 7 December 2009 (UTC)