This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Seattle Mariners article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers.	Be polite Assume good faith Avoid personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability

Seattle Mariners received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived.  It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects:

WikiProject Baseball / Mariners (Rated B-Class, High-importance) BaseballWikipedia:WikiProject BaseballTemplate:WikiProject BaseballBaseball articles Baseball portal v • d • e Seattle Mariners is within the scope of WikiProject Baseball, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of baseball and baseball-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page, or contribute to the discussion.  B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.  High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by WikiProject Seattle Mariners (marked as Top-importance). WikiProject Video games (Rated B-Class, Low-importance) Video gamesWikipedia:WikiProject Video gamesTemplate:WikiProject Video gamesvideo game articles Video games portal v • d • e This article is within the scope of WikiProject Video games, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of video games on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.  B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.  Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by the Nintendo task force. Things you can help with: edit · history · watch · purge A membership list has been started. If you are an active member, be sure to list yourself as such. Peer review: Pong Toss! Frat Party Games, Zeno Clash, Halo: Reach, The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay, Crash Nitro Kart, Neverwinter Nights 2: Storm of Zehir Featured content candidates – FA candidates: Xenogears Original Soundtrack - FL candidates: List of songs in The Beatles: Rock Band, List of songs in DJ Hero Good content candidates: Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King, Scribblenauts, A Boy and His Blob (2009 video game), Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura, Zero (Mega Man), Izuna 2: The Unemployed Ninja Returns, Guitar Hero On Tour series, Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest, Steins;Gate, Saw, Brütal Legend, Tifa Lockhart, Xenogears, Warcraft: Orcs & Humans, Michael Salvatori, Mario, Final Fantasy II, Defender (video game), Sword of Aragon, Final Fantasy IV - Music: Hitoshi Sakimoto, Yasunori Mitsuda, Takahito Eguchi, Hiroki Kikuta, Noriko Matsueda, Jeremy Soule Article status review – FA Review: Final Fantasy VIII Bounty board: Wario, Beyond Good & Evil (March 28, 2010) Pages for Deletion: Participate in video game related deletion discussions. Announce your new pages. Grant requests if they are suitable for inclusion. Images: Add box-art and screenshots to articles. Make sure to include a valid non-free use rationale. Remember to add {{WikiProject Video games}} to every video game article, template, category, image and project Talk page. Monitor changes to WP:VG and changes to this to-do list. Help clean up articles in Category:Video game cleanup. Remember to get articles you've significantly improved re-assessed. Sign up for the VG Newsletter. WikiProject Washington (Rated B-Class, High-importance) WashingtonWikipedia:WikiProject WashingtonTemplate:WikiProject WashingtonWashington articles Washington portal v • d • e This article is within the scope of WikiProject Washington, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Washington on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.  B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.  High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale. WikiProject Washington To-do List: edit · history · watch · purge Add the template {{WikiProject Washington}} to Washington related talk pages To Destub: Category:Washington (U.S. state) stubs Articles needing pictures: Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Washington To Create: Tipsoo Lake (Requested Articles) Update and Maintain the Portal Fix articles requiring immediate attention: Category:Washington articles needing attention Add infoboxes to: Category:Washington articles needing infoboxes Fix articles: in our Cleanup Listing WikiProject Seattle   SeattleWikipedia:WikiProject SeattleTemplate:WikiProject SeattleSeattle articles v • d • e Seattle Mariners falls within the scope of the Seattle WikiProject, a group of Wikipedians interested in improving the encyclopedic coverage of articles relating to Seattle, Washington, and who are involved in developing and proposing standards for their content, presentation and other aspects. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.  ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.  ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.

Contents 1 Planned Revisions 2 March 25, 2005 Revision 3 Ownership history 4 Padres-Mariners "rivalry"? 5 Current Roster 6 History 7 Someone should make a seperate page about the 2001 season 8 Roster 9 Major revision 10 Disputed Neutrality 11 Freddy Garcia an Aging and Declining Player? 12 Ken Griffey's return 13 Nintendo DS fan network 14 History page 15 All-time Mariner list 16 Hall of Famers 17 Fair use rationale for Image:Img5778773.jpg 18 May 2 uniforms v. Oakland

[edit] Planned Revisions

• More in-depth history -- Jwinters | Talk

You could take the Bill Bavasi root, and just dump the stars without replacing them with anyone any good... But its mad that this article does not mention Alvin Davis -- GWO

Note: I made the original statement in the "Planned Revisions" section when I first started with Wikipedia. I've since modified it to better follow wiki conventions. -- Jwinters | Talk 19:18, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

• I still think it's a shame the franchise history does not mention much before 1995. I'll have to work on something... -- Jwinters | Talk 18:15, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] March 25, 2005 Revision

I just did an expansion of the "1970s and 1980s" and "1990s" sections. I removed the last paragraph about the change of ownership because it was mostly inconsequential. I might add it back later, but I think if I did that for an inconsequential change, I should add all changes. -- Jwinters | Talk 15:37, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ownership history

I'm thinking that there should be a seperate section on the page about the history of club ownership. I know the team has changed hands several times, and that there was a national controversy when the current owner offered to buy the team, but I don't know enough about the early years of ownership to start this section. I think this section should mention things like Smulyan trying to move the team to tampa bay. They had maintenence crew at Tropicana field setting things up for the next season to start... this was early-90's. --Measure 06:13, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

Seconding this. I know it's owned by Nintendo of America, but I'd like to know the history behind it. 75.21.76.108 06:44, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

-Isn't the owner "The Baseball Club of Seattle, L.P.?"

"The Baseball Club of Seattle, L.P.", assumed control of the Mariners on July 1, 1992, upon approval of the Major League owners. The majority owner was Hiroshi Yamauchi (Nintendo founder) and the Board of Directors were John Ellis (chairman), Minoru Arakawa, Chris Larson, Howard Lincoln, John McCaw, Frank Shrontz and Craig Watjen.

There currently are 16 minority owners, all of whom reside in the Seattle area, and the Board of Directors are: Lincoln, Ellis (Chairman Emeritus), Arakawa, Larson, Wayne Perry, Shrontz and Watjen. Lincoln was selected as chairman and CEO on Sept. 27, 1999, and Yamauchi recently transferred his stock in the franchise to Nintendo of America."

From http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051029&content_id=1262324&vkey=news_sea&fext=.jsp&c_id=sea

--Jdurbach 17:46, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Padres-Mariners "rivalry"?

Copying over some relevant talk from Gateman1997's talk page. --Measure 19:31, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

That one Ann Nonymous character has been inventing rivalries for all the teams. The only rivalry I can think of between San Diego and Seattle is that they are in the same time zone. Wahkeenah 18:16, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Hey... actually the Mariners/Padres rivalry is a 'manufactured' rivalry. Because there are some true interleague natural rivalries, such as cubs/whitesox, and MLB wants them to play each other every year, all the teams were assigned a yearly interleague opponent. Mariners and Padres were one of the assignments. So it's not a true rivalry, but it is referred to as a rivalry by MLB. Measure 18:20, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

I wouldn't say that makes it a rivalry however. If no fans, and no players feel it's a rivalry MLB can claim it is all they want... but calling the sky green doesn't make it so. Gateman1997 18:36, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree with that sentiment... the rivalry is so fierce that the two teams share spring training facilities, leading to dozens of handshakes and for all I know, lunches together. Better hire some more security... Measure 19:02, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

Dogs and cats sleeping together! Mass hysteria!

The lightbulb finally comes on here in the northwoods. Measure's explanation points the way to a solution. We need to distinguish between "Historical" or "Traditional" rivalries (i.e the ones mostly generated by fan interest, such as Giants-Dodgers, Yankees-Red Sox, Cubs-Cardinals, Cubs-White Sox, etc.) and "Recent" or "Manufactured" rivalries. Having said that, it's worth pointing out that all rivalries are to some extent "manufactured" by the folks who run the sports, through franchise location and scheduling. Bill Veeck once fomented a rivalry in the American Association between his Milwaukee team and the St. Paul club, by going on the radio in Minneapolis and purposely bad-mouthing St. Paul as a city, figuring that the irate St. Paul fans would show up at Lexington Park to vent their wrath. He actually did that as a favor to the struggling St. Paul club owner... and it worked. But as Dick Clark said during the "Payola" investigations of the late 1950s, no amount of hype can turn a dud into a hit. It sounds like Seattle-San Diego falls into that category. Wahkeenah 19:15, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

If anything, Seattle's rivalries are with both the Yankees and the Angels. The hardcore icon the sandman 18:15, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Current Roster

Why can't I edit the current roster? it just has the heading, then the subheading when I try to edit it.

It is a template formed from another page. You can find it at Seattle Mariners roster. --WAvegetarian ^(talk) (email) ^(contribs) 07:09, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] History

Mariners made tech history with their '95 ALCS win: it was first to be broadcast live on the Internet... Trekphiler 19:25, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

• That was an ALDS win, the mariners have never won an ALCS, just to clarify.Crd721

[edit] Someone should make a seperate page about the 2001 season

There is a breakdown of baseball by each year. However there is nothing about the 2001 season for seattle. Just a suggestion.

• Espically August 5th, 2001. --Bopher1 08:56, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

• • Go away, Indians fan. :P Nosleep1234 11:41, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Roster

Added Eric O'Flaherty to active roster. According to some sources Eric was going to head back to tacoma when he was called back on 8/15/06 [1]. Eric is now offically on the list [2] and pitched his first game 8/16/06. Also removed Greg Dobbs [3]

[edit] Major revision

I've made a fairly major revision to the article. I went through the whole thing and changed instances of awkward wording, added wikilinks, fixed punctuation and grammar, etc. I also recategorized the "history" section - the old breakdown seemed unnecessarilly complex, now all the headers correspond to years or groups of years, and there are no sub-sections. If everyone prefers the old way, then feel free of course to change it back, but I think this is an improvement. I also made the "season records" section into a table, rather than the disorganized list it was, and made some additions, particularly to the 1995 section. -Elmer Clark 05:39, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed Neutrality

I have tagged this article in order to dispute its neutrality. I myself am as big a Mariners fan as anyone else, but it's inappropriate to refer in an encyclopedia article to a "moment of sweet irony" (describing Langston's performance in the 1995 one-game playoff) or to a playoff run "unfortunately" ending (which I've not yet removed, since much of the article seems to be POV). See Wikipedia policy on neutral point of view. Job L 21:12, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

You definitely make a valid point. I'll comb through it either tonight or in the next couple days to try to weed out such instances. Good catch. -Elmer Clark 02:44, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I think this edit has addressed the POV concerns in the article. Would you be ok with the tag being removed now? -Elmer Clark 22:35, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I concur that the article now adheres to NPOV. Thanks for your edits. However, although you've taken care of the POV issue, there are a number of reported facts that need to be cited (e.g., rumors about Piniella's request to leave the team, etc.) and which I've just recently tagged as such. Job L 03:25, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Freddy Garcia an Aging and Declining Player?

In the "rebuilding" section, Garcia is mentioned in the same breath as John Olerud. However, Garcia's skills were in no way declining at the time—in fact, if memory serves me correctly, he was the most productive starter in the Seattle rotation at that time. The reason he was traded was rather that he was approaching the end of his contract and was believed by the front office to be unsignable after the season's end. Olerud, on the other hand, was released precisely on account of his underperformance, as was Bret Boone. Job L 03:28, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, that isn't made clear, you can feel free to revise it accordingly. I might try and find some sources for the claims you tagged over the next couple days. -Elmer Clark 06:22, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I found sources for all the places you indicated that citations were needed. Incidentally, doing os led me to discover that a lot of the section about the Kingdome tiles falling was lifted word-for-word from here. Never would have caught that if not for your ridiculous demand for citations :) Seriously though, I'm thankful that you brought this and the NPOV concern up. I think the article is considerably stronger now that they're dealt with. -Elmer Clark 07:56, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I concur, the article does look much better now. Thanks for taking the time actually to look up the various citations needed—this reads much more like an encyclopedia article than some sort of memoir created by an M's fan (although I get the sense that we're both that, too). Job L 00:43, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ken Griffey's return

I don't know what's planned for next weekend's Mariners/Reds series (I will be at all three games though, quite pleased of that), but I can't imagine Griffey's return will go by without some sort of ceremony/event. Is that the kind of thing that would merit inclusion on this page, the 2007 page, or (I could hardly believe this) neither? Nosleep1234 11:42, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nintendo DS fan network

Maybe I overlooked it, but the fan network allowing TV feeds being tested at home games has not been mentioned. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070708/ap_on_hi_te/bbo_interactive_fans;_ylt=Alco8yJOV5KuLWCj_cVATyk4k4gC --76.202.208.219 13:12, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History page

Would it be alright to shorten the current length of the history section and give a link to the history page at the top of the section? Just thinking that the Mariners template has had the red History of the Seattle Mariners for some time now, so I'm gonna start it soon if someone else doesn't! --Nightfreak 14:07, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

• Sorted! --Nightfreak 08:41, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't really think the history is long enough to justify a separate article, but I wouldn't object I suppose. -Elmer Clark 06:57, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] All-time Mariner list

What would be really useful here is to start building a list of ALL Mariners players since the franchises inception. There have been a huge number of people wearing this M's uniform over the years and it would be a shame if we forget them as the years go by. ---- —Preceding unsigned comment added by JPatSea (talk • contribs)

See Category:Seattle Mariners players. -Elmer Clark 06:53, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hall of Famers

The section on Hall of Famers used say that Gaylord Perry is the only Hall of Famer "to have worn a Mariner uniform." Technically, this is not true. Paul Molitor is in the Hall of Fame, and he "wore a Mariner uniform" as their hitting instructor. I edited the section to preserve the stronger claim, that Perry is the only Hall of Famer to have in fact played for the Mariners. Tromboneguy0186 21:46, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Good catch - best to avoid poetic turns of phrase that make a statement false :) -Elmer Clark 00:09, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Img5778773.jpg

Image:Img5778773.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 22:46, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] May 2 uniforms v. Oakland

Did something happen to one of their apparently three different uniforms for the May 2 game against Oakland? They were wearing the Rainier uniforms of their Triple A affiliate. Thanks. InspectorSands (talk) 02:15, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

This was a one-off event called "Turn Back the Clock Night." It's held every year (at least every year I've lived in Seattle), and this year they decided to pay homage to the 1939 Seattle Rainiers to celebrate the 70th anniversary of their winning their first Pacific Coast League championship. The A's were wearing Oakland Oaks uniforms from the same era. KuyaBriBri^Talk 18:22, 19 May 2009 (UTC)