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1 Nature of the US Federal System
2 Misleading
- 2.1 Federal Oversight of United States Territory
  - 2.1.1 Congress of the United States
  - 2.1.2 United States Department of the Interior
3 Palmyra Atoll
4 Palau
5 Syncing content
6 Utter Bullsh
7 how about "Subdivisons of the United States"
8 "Political subdivisions of" to "Administrative divisions of"
9 IRaq and Afghanistan
10 "Political" divisions...?
11 Number of cities
12 New section: Pseudo-government entities?
13 Disputed Areas
14 Remove SVG map?
15 San Marino not a city-state

[edit] Nature of the US Federal System

The federal government of the United States was created when sovereign states delegated some of their sovereignty to one central government. The sovereignty they delegated, however, was not complete. The logical extension of this delegation is that the federal government enjoys limited sovereignty, and the states retain whatever sovereignty they never delegated to the federal government.

This is incorrect and puts a bit of a Civil War era spin on the nature of the Federal system. The states did not create the national government by a "delegation" of sovereignty. The United States has traditionally been regarded (legally and colloquially) as a creation of the people, not as agents of state government, but as individuals. One does not have to be a citizen of a state to be a citizen of the United States, and state governments have no explicit power over the national government. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.97.45.146 (talk) 03:20, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Misleading

   This is misleading enough to need an extensive rewrite,

the first paragraph is just wrong. The Constitution explicitly prohibits Congress from altering the boundaries of states without their consent.

[edit] Federal Oversight of United States Territory

[edit] Congress of the United States

The U.S. Congress is granted the power to set political divisions within the territory of the United States. The power of Congress over such divisions is exclusive and universal, which would not preclude state and local governments from suing the federal government if they disputed an act of Congress.

[edit] United States Department of the Interior

On March 3, 1849, on the last day of the 30th Congress, a bill was passed to create the U.S. Department of the Interior to take charge of the internal affairs of United States territory. The Interior Department has a wide range of responsibilities (which include the regulation of territorial governments, the basic responsibilities for public lands, and other various duties).

In contrast to similarly named Departments in other countries, the United States Department of the Interior is not responsible for local government or for civil administration except in the cases of Indian reservations, through the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA), and island dependencies, through the Office of Insular Affairs (OIA). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Roadrunner (talk • contribs) 05:56, April 29, 2004 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you are objecting to. The paragraphs you excised talk about the Congress' authority over U.S. territory, NOT the States of the Union. There is a difference. older ≠ wiser 11:44, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC)

For reference, from the U.S. Constitution.

Article IV, Section. 3.

New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.

The deleted text may need some minor clarification, but there is no basis for wholesale deletion or overhaul. older ≠ wiser 20:32, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Palmyra Atoll

Why is Palmyra Atoll '"privately owned," disputed'? Pædia 16:26, 2004 Jun 30 (UTC)

Good question. This is the first that I've heard of it being "disputed" (other than between the two of us as to whether is is permanently staffed or not :). older≠wiser 17:04, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)

(Laughing out loud!) Thanks. Pædia 19:39, 2004 Jun 30 (UTC)

The privately owned is explained on Palmyra's page, but the disputed is mysterious. According to this page Palymra has no territorial disputes, although it does say that there are competing claims for Wake and Navassa... jengod 19:50, Jun 30, 2004 (UTC)

Jengod, I think you inserted 'disputed' at 15:08, 2004 Jun 24. Pædia 21:00, 2004 Jun 30 (UTC)

[edit] Palau

Palau was never a US unincorporated territory, and it never appertained to the US. It was part of a League of Nations Mandate, and later a UN Trust Territory under US administation, just like the territory that later became the Federated States of Micronesia

I'm not sure why the above comment is here, but the appropriate place for this content is Palau, if the existing text there doesn't cover this adequately. -- Beland 03:14, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

A "Trust Territory" is specifically defined as an international mandate to administer a non-self-governing territory, and to help it build a self-governing infrastructure, with the explicit intention and obligation of preparing that territory to exercize its right of self-determination, be it by independence or by eventual political union with the administrating country.

While the actual governance of a Trust Territory is the responsability of the country holding the trusteeship, said country does not possess sovereignty. Sovereignty lies with the international organization that executes the Mandate or Trust, be it the League of Nations or the United Nations. For this reason, an accurate political map will never label a Trust Territory with the name of the administrating country, or with the phrase "to [country]," but will instead show the proper formula of "[country]-administered."

Ditto, for United Nations Trust Territories. -- Beland 03:14, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Syncing content

Is there a better way to sync content of the Insular areas list with Insular areas? A template, perhaps? -- Beland 02:50, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Utter Bullsh

I already excised an entire paragraph which completely mischaracterized the government of New York City. I'm thinking this also needs to go: In essence, the city as municipal corporation is the modern form of the ancient city-state, a sovereign entity that exists today only in the forms of Singapore, San Marino, Monaco, and the Vatican. What do others think? Nelson Ricardo 17:18, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

I know it's over two years since your post, but I agree. This whole paragraph:

In some states, cities operate independently of townships. Some cities (and all cities in Virginia) operate outside of the jurisdiction of any county. Cities, which are sometimes called towns, differ from counties and townships in that they are not administrative divisions of the state. Instead, they are semi-autonomous municipal corporations that are recognized by the state. In essence, the city as municipal corporation is the modern form of the ancient city-state, a sovereign entity that exists today only in the forms of Monaco, San Marino, Singapore, and the Vatican City.

needs to be deleted. Just because a city is not part of a county does not mean that it is not a political subdivision of the state. Take Carson City, Nevada. Despite not being part of a county, it's the state capital for Christ's sakes. How is it, or any other non-county municipality, semi-autonomous from the state? I'm thinking about deleting this. The only city in the US proper that is not part of a state is Washington, coterminous with the District of Columbia. -24.149.203.34 (talk) 00:31, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] how about "Subdivisons of the United States"

The article misses entirely the elected local governments called "districts." Most important are school districts, which operate either under state statute or local charter initiative, depending on the state, and have independent governing bodies. In most states there are several other types of service disticts authorized in statute as local governments, rather than as non-governmental associations.

I'll just stick this in here because I don't really care that much, but MAryland (and perhaps other states, I don't know) has a strong county level of government. Does it warrant mention? I leave that to the constant bickering mandarins of the wikipedia.

like for the others in Category:Subdivisions by country ? Would this be ok? Tobias Conradi (Talk) 18:29, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

I had the same problem. I was looking for Subdivisions of the United States, but simply couldnt find it! With no opposition being voiced since March 9 (comment above), I was bold and moved it.

Cheers, The Minist e r of War ^(Peace) 08:04, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

And I moved it back. You didn't even both to fix the double redirects. My goodness, the categories are all wrong! Some German speaker with poor English skills has corrupted the correct "Administrative Divisions" into "Subdivisions" Needless to say, the categories are not about platting.

--William Allen Simpson 15:17, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Excuse me? German speaker with poor English skills? Would you like to take that back before or after I point you to my user page?

I'd also like to point out that the Subdivisions of Russia (which, like Germany, I also dont come from) are also not about platting. They are just in sync with the regular naming for such articles, thats all.

And indeed forgot about the redirects, my bad.

The Minist e r of War ^(Peace) 15:47, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, wasn't referring to you, was Tobias Conradi that renamed all the categories (changed context in the previous sentence, probably should have been a new paragraph). At about the same time he lost the straw poll at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (subnational entities).

The standard terminology is Political division and Administrative division. I've only just started looking, and found a pile of articles and categories that used to be correctly named "Administrative divisions of XXX". Can't tell about Subdivisions of Russia, seems to have been originally about "Federal subjects" and split some time ago.

--William Allen Simpson 18:18, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Aha okay. I thought it was a strange insult, but got me riled up nonetheless.

I agree Admin Div is better; I'll comment at CfD as well.

Cheers, The Minist e r of War ^(Peace) 21:21, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I did rename "all the categories"?. Which categories do you refer to? I only renamed those that were not in sync. If you prefer to have the stuff not in sync this is another thing. As you want to split the cats into Pol Divs and Admin Divs, depending on country. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 06:50, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Subdivision (for countries) is not only used by German's with poor english skills. see: ISO 3166-2 Codes for the representation of names of countries and their subdivisions -- Part 2: Country subdivision code .

If Admin Div is better, why the title now is Pol Div? I think an umbrella term (country subdivisions) for Admin Div and Pol Div is better used for the categories. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 06:50, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Political subdivisions of" to "Administrative divisions of"

Ok, I'm kinda confused here. I'm working on a page for the Political subdivisions of North Carolina State. Should this page be "Political Divisions of" or "Administrative Divisions of" North Carolina? I got the idea to start working on this because there is a page for the "Political Subdivisions of New York State" and that got me interested in wanting to figure out the breakdown of NC state politics, and being able to compare the two for myself, since i'm from NY and now live in NC. So do I need to change something here? Political subdivisions of New York State I'm not sure about some of this tag stuff here... hope i get it right! eromrab (Talk) 10:10, 5 April 2006 (EST).

The correct form should be:

This is the official terminology of the United States, and most state governments. See (quick non-exhaustive Google search):

--William Allen Simpson 23:00, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] IRaq and Afghanistan

are Iraq and Afghanistan also US territories as they are American occupied entiis. 210.9.15.116 12:38, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't believe so; both have their own heads of state, armies, police, etc. Regards, David Kernow (talk) 08:36, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Both Iraq and Afghanistan are completely sovereign nations. While the United States and other coalition governments have troops stationed there, they are there to assist the local governments fight terrorists and not as an “occupation force.”

[edit] "Political" divisions...?

In the wake of a couple of the threads above, I too am thinking that states and territories are primarily administrative rather than political divisions...? If noone (still) watching this article indicates otherwise, I'm minded to rename it Administrative divisions of the United States, otherwise Administrative and political divisions of the United States... Regards, David Kernow (talk) 08:34, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Number of cities

Article states:"There are approximately 30,000 incorporated cities in the United States, with varying degrees of self-rule."

The 2002 Census of governments Volume 1 http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/gc021x1.pdf States:

There are 19,429 municipal governments in the United States. For the purposes of the census, a “municipal government” refers to “political subdivisions within which a municipal corporation has been established to provide general local government for a specific population concentration in a defined area, and includes all active government units officially designated as cities, boroughs (except in Alaska), towns (except in Minnesota, New York, Wisconsin, and six New England states) and villages.”

Should this citation be more precise than "approximatly 30,000"?

[edit] New section: Pseudo-government entities?

I'd like to propose a new section: Pseudo-government entities, or something along those lines. Skim through Homeowners association. They are increasing, both in number and power, have the ability to levy taxes and fines, regulate the colours one paints a house, etc. They have been recognised as plaintiffs in various court cases. A few quotes from the page follow.

"In some U.S. states, California or Texas for instance, a homeowners association can foreclose a member's house without any judicial procedure in order to collect special assessments, fees and even a fine. Other states, like Florida, require a judicial hearing."
(different court case) "In ruling for the plaintiffs [in Committee for a Better Twin Rivers v. Twin Rivers Homeowners’ Association], the appeals court relied on a 1946 United States Supreme Court case, Marsh v. Alabama. In Marsh, the Court held that a company-owned town that functioned like a government should be treated like one."

Thoughts?samwaltz 14:36, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed Areas

The disputed areas in the list are not all 'territories' but yet are listed under that heading. It would be unbiased to direct people to the page about American territorial disputes than to confuse them into thinking that Machias Seal Island is considered a federal territory when it is actually Maine's and that the Dixon Entrance is a land dispute. Do you think I don't want people to know about the disputes? What is my motivation except to make this page unbiased?CharlesRobertCountofNesselrode 11:20, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Remove SVG map?

What purpose does the SVG map in the "External links" section serve? There are already maps and links to all the states earlier in the article, and the state names/abbreviations aren't well positioned on the map (probably varies by user). For me, "Oklahoma" barely touches Oklahoma, and "DC" is in the middle of Pennsylvania. I think the map should be deleted if it can't be fixed (and even then it seems redundant). —KCinDC (talk) 20:59, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

The map is totally useless. I say delete it. -epicAdam (talk) 21:38, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

No one's spoken up for it, so I removed it. —KCinDC (talk) 23:00, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] San Marino not a city-state

While Monaco, Singapore, and Vatican City are city-states, the article says that San Marino is also a city-state. It seems to me it has multiple cities ("municipalities") such as Dogana and Borgo Maggiore, unlike Monaco, which is one city with multiple quarters. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.164.236.198 (talk) 00:39, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

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