Talk:Pickup truck Information & Talk:Pickup truck Links at HealthHaven.com

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July 19, 2006

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[edit] Trucks & Capacity

I removed:

Typically, trucks with a load capacity of one tonne or less are regarded as pickups.

because vehicles larger than 1 ton capacity are considered pickups in the United States at least. —Morven 19:10, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

You're gonna get things like this here. Blame the "Old world" for this nonsense. ;-) Sneakernets 09:05, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] South African Utes

I know that the Ford Bantam compact (Fiesta-based-IIRC) ute is very popular in South Africa and has been for decades. Perhapse someone who knows more about South African utes could add that info to the article: like what other manufacturers make them? (AFAIK Mazda used to when the Bantam was a 323 clone). -- stewacide 05:01, 14 May 2004 (UTC)

Your wish has been granted. For general information on the ute body style, see the article Coupe utility. For specific information on the Ford Bantam, see the article: Ford Bantam. -- Ddgonzal 05:16, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Historical Background?

This article needs some history. The first pick up was actually an Australian invention, but the idea rapidly spread to the US and has become mostly thought of synonymous with the US. I have some details about this somewhere but not sure if it's enough to write authoritatively. I will do so if no-one else feels better qualified though. Graham 00:25, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I'd imagine that 'first pickup truck' depends on one's definition of pickup truck. Daimler's first truck in 1896 looked somewhat pickup like, for example.

I would suspect that the definition in use for that Australian claim is first car-based pickup, which is a possibility. Some cites would be nice. —Morven 06:20, Jul 11, 2004 (UTC)

here's a page that actually contradicts the australian origin: [1]. I' e had little luck tracking down much evidence to supporting the australian claim - i read about it in a popular science book (published in australia) so it may well have got its facts wrong. The other thing is that it may be drawing a distinction bewteen what the australians calla "ute", and the pickup. As far as I can see in modern forms they are the self same thing, but earlier on they might not have been.Graham 01:50, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The modern day ute design is indeed based on the Australian design first manufactured at Ford in Geelong. But yes Ford offered a number of light utility trucks such as the Ford Models T and A. But the modern design came from Australia. Yeah it would be good if someone could write something... im quite tired. Something needs to be added about Australian Ute culture as well.... its huge (even though I detest it myself ;)) and I would presume larger than the American Ute culture. Check out Australian Ute Musters. Utes are considered as Australian as Apple pie is considered American. Some articles on Ute history are [2] [3]. - UnlimitedAccess 16:09, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Graham said "pick up" but is referring to the Coupe utility, an Australian invention known informally as ute. In colloquial Australian usage "pickup" and "ute" are used interchangeably, but that was not the case historically. Further confusing the matter is that manufacturers have used both terms to refer to the same vehicle, but this is the general pattern anyways (take various definitions of "sports car" as an example). -- Ddgonzal 05:23, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

History is definitely needed. I have heard Buick invented the pickup as we know it in 1912, 1913, or 1915 (I can't recall which). The Oz utes seem to have inspired the Ranchero and Camino, which could (should) also be mentioned here. --squadfifteen

[edit] International CXT

I've removed the International CXT from the full size pickups section. I believe it's too large and too heavy to be considered a proper pickup, as its size is closer to that of a Mitsubishi Canter or Toyota Dyna. While these, like the CXT, have pickup beds, they are actually considered medium-duty or heavy-duty trucks. --Pc13 18:46, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Australia reference

I removed the reference to Australia being the birthplace of the pickup truck. Australia was the first to have the ute, which at that time meant a car-like vehicle with a (pickup) bed in the back. However, PicupTruck.com's history page shows that pickup trucks were produced by American manufacturers even earlier. - Slo-mo 07:48, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Keeping in line with Slo-mo's comments and sources and what Graham and UnlimitedAccess added, I have altered the introduction somewhat. I hope it fulfils everyones expectations. Bobby1011 13:17, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the reference is back: "The basic modern design of the pickup truck first appeared in Geelong, Australia in 1934." This 1934 date is actually referring to the Coupe Utility, but Roadster Utilities were seen earlier than 1934, and even regular pickups were available in America prior to 1934. So it seems this should be removed, or better yet replaced with the more correct details. Ddgonzal 23:27, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 1-ton + a "pickup"?

Morven, are you sure? As a US citizen and car & truck fan, I cannot think of any truck with bigger than 1-ton rating that people generally call a pickup. 1-1/2 ton and bigger, even if they have a pickup-style bed, are considered medium-duty or heavy-duty trucks as with the International CXT discussion above . Ddgonzal 23:17, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Before I was born(which was in 1965), they used to make heavier pickup trucks than that. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, Jeep and International Harvester used to have 1-1/2 ton pickups in their light-duty lineups through the 1960's and 1970's. ---- DanTD 04:03, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Coupe Utilities

Since Coupe Utilities are not generally called "pickups" I think this article should reference the Coupe Utility article.

In the US, they previously were not generally called "pickups", but instead called "car-based trucks" (so could go in the Truck article) or "passenger-car based pickup trucks" or "El Camino-style" cars or trucks or "Ranchero-style". Let's face it, there is no standard phrase used in USA like "Coupe Utility" or "ute" as used in Australia. Although the VW rabbit coupe utility was marketed as the "VW Pickup" if I recall correctly. I've asked several older americans from the 50's what El Caminos or Rancheros were called, and they tell me they don't recall hearing them called a plain "pickup", at least not without some kind of car-related qualification. This agrees with my memories of usage of the word "pickup" during the 70s and 80s.

Are they a car, like most Americans would say, or a truck like some other Americans would say? It seems to me that they are neither, but it can be shown historically and production-wise that they are closer to cars than trucks. So while this pickup truck article should refer to them, I don't think the details of Coupe Utility belong in this article. The details should be in the Coupe Utility article.

Mgthommo 07:07, 9 July 2007 (UTC)How about one article encompassing pick-up trucks and coupe utilities (utes) under the heading "Utility Vehicles"?Mgthommo 07:07, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

What do you Aussies say? Were coupe utilites called "pickups"?

I'd always thought of "pickup-truck" as a purely American term. As the article says, the term 'Ute' applied first to the Coupe Utility, but now encompasses that and light trucks. The Holden Rodeo, now qualifies as a ute, but was advertised as a 1-ton truck when it first came out here. I also know, that if I should go shopping for a "Ute", what I really want to look for is a "Coupe Utility" (changing language, mutter, grumble... =) --Martin Rudat(T|@|C) 12:22, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

What do you Americans that actually owned new El Caminos or Rancheros back in the day say? Is this most appropriate for the Pickup Truck article, or as a "car body style"? Ddgonzal 23:37, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

We had a Ranchero when I was a kid and we just called it a Ranchero. Sometimes people thought it was an El Camino. If there were more car like pickups then maybe El Camino would have become the generic term like Kleenex for tissues.--Gbleem 01:39, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

By the way I think the Subaru Brat was refered to as a pickup even though its bed was not separate. --Gbleem 01:42, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

The coupe utility is properly a subclass of the pickup family. The Coupe Utility (or ute as we Aussies call them) is a type of pickup that is car based and also has a monocoque body from the front all the way to the back (i.e. the tray area can not be separated from the front body). If the tray can be removed separately to the front body then it is a pickup and not a ute. This means that the popular Holden HQ one tonner is a pickup and not a ute, while the half tonner (with its monocoque body) is still a ute, even though both vehicles share parts except for the rear body. Americans invented the pickup, Aussies invented the ute. Stepho-wrs 06:05, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ford Ranger

The Ford Ranger is listed as a mid size and also as a compact. Which is it?

Reply: The older ford rangers around 1995 are concerned compact pickups. The new models are midsized. It's grown in size over the years.

Ford Ranger was also the next-to-upscale model of the full-size Ford F-Series between the late-1960's and early-1980's. ---- DanTD 14:23, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External Link Spam

Please do not add commercial links or links to your own private websites to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a vehicle for advertising or a mere collection of external links. You are, however, encouraged to add content instead of links to the encyclopedia. If you feel the link should be added to the article please discuss it on the article's talk page rather than re-adding it. See the welcome page to learn more about Wikipedia. Thanks. Thalter 17:09, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Who is this for? The spammers probably won't be reading the Talk page. -Rolypolyman 00:10, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Missing Something

A Pickup Truck article without a picture of the Ford F150? I am disgraced.

(humor)

Cissel 05:21, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

yeah I know, I noticed this as well. That's what I expected to see when I clicked on this article, to be honest. :-) Sneakernets 09:04, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Contradictory

This article lists the "invention" of the pickup to both the United States, and to Australia (in the form of the ute, but still claiming to invent the style). Also, in one area of the article, Ford are described as having built the first Australian ute, and Chrysler and GM in another. --Matthew Proctor 03:55, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Are you referring to this, which from time to time someone adds back to this article? "The basic modern design of the pickup truck first appeared in Geelong, Australia in 1934." This 1934 date is actually referring to the Coupe Utility, but Roadster Utilities were seen earlier than 1934, and even regular pickups were available in America prior to 1934. The article now does not include that comment. I see no contradiction now. - Ddgonzal 07:58, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "B&S" fashion

What does this mean?

An aussie term - Bachelor and Spinster Ball, sort of a party for farmers. I assume that the utes are customized in a particular way in this sub-culture? New B&S Ball Connection Rurik 12:24, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pickups as general transporation?

In North America, pickup trucks were commonly used as general purpose passenger cars.

Until relatively recently, is wasn't all that common in the US for pickups to be uses as general transportation. They were mostly used as work vehicles, with use as a general transportation vehicle as a secondary use. It has become more common in recent years to use them as a primary vehicle, but the article appears to give the impression that this is a usage that goes back a long way. Perhaps the sentence could be changed to something like "In North America pickup trucks have been increasingly used as general purpose passenger cars."?--RLent 20:29, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] British Usage

"In the UK, the use of the term pickup truck is generally used to refer to vehicles which are used to retrieve other road vehicles that have broken down." This really needs a citation; in all my life and 20-odd years in the motor trade I've never heard anyone call a recovery vehicle a 'pick-up'. In my experience, it is 'break-down lorry', or more commonly these days 'break-down truck'. Recently, with US usage becoming more common, you often hear 'tow-truck', too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.242.161.178 (talk) 22:46, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] History

Someone has this line placed at the beginning of the History Section: "The first factory assembled trucks where NOt Fords, but International Harvesters, which were built as early as 1907 i believe. Please look it up and update." I assume it was a suggestion for someone in editing the article, and not intended to be an edit of the article. I am placing it here, where it belongs and removing it from the article. Failureofafriend (talk) 05:26, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Body-on-frame vs. unit-body

Are we quite sure that a vehicle can only be properly called a "truck" if it's got body-on-frame construction? That's what this article says (and/or strongly implies), but where is this notion coming from? Certainly most pickup trucks are body-on-frame, but we've got to account for the unit-body Honda Ridgeline. I don't think "trucks have frames, and if it doesn't have one it's not a truck" can be supported. —Scheinwerfermann (talk) 14:46, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

...and furthermore, where is it written that a Coupe Utility must necessarily be built on a unit-body platform? Until we can find where it's written (i.e., until we can support the assertion from a reliable source I am rewording the definition to eliminate the unit-body specificity. —Scheinwerfermann (talk) 13:58, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Further to the Ute vs. Pickup terminology.

I don't have a useful cite, but 3rd hand I have heard that (in some parts of Australia at least) a ute is based on a (existing) sedan model and a pickup is not.

(Personally I only knew of pickup as an Americanism.)

Mark Hurd (talk) 11:36, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually, all light commercial vehicles with styleside or stepside bodies are considered to be utes, not just those with the tray and cabin constructed as one unit. The NSW Roads and Traffic Authority uses this definition on registration certificates, including such vehicles as a Toyota Hilux 4WD, which has a separate styleside tray. Also, in the 1970s and 1980s when Ford Australia were building F100s and F150s, those that were fitted with a styleside body on the production line (as opposed to being built cab/chassis and getting a tray later) were actually labelled UTE on the compliance plate. Tabletop trays are mostly not considered to be utes for regulatory purposes, but are still commonly referred to as utes. --Athol Mullen (talk) 11:59, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Gallery format

[Another editor reverted my recent reformat, commenting "Use the same name and format as most automobile articles.")

There's no real MOS standard for galleries that I know of. As you probably know, the default size for images outside a gallery is 180px, so that's what I generally use inside one. The gallery software is wonky and won't allow user preferences for size. Thanks, Pete Tillman (talk) 17:19, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

The other editor would be me. Using 'Gallery of pickup trucks' in an article called 'Pickup truck' is redundant. The simpler title 'Gallery' gives the same information in a much more readable way. There is no MOS standard for galleries but we should strive to keep the same format in all automobile articles - and most other articles use the simple title 'Gallery' and a simple <gallery> without options and without centering. But if we can't agree then we can always ask some more experience editors at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Automobiles. Cheers. Stepho-wrs (talk) 23:09, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Title is fine, if you just want "Gallery". But this does seem an odd objection, since (by my count) "Pickup" is used 14 times in the TOC. For the rest, we will have to agree to disagree, I think. I find those 90 or 100px thumbnails the current gallery software supplies, near-worthless. I did remove the gallery centering, but you restored it. Best, Pete Tillman (talk) 23:40, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Compact and mid-size pickups?

There's some confusion here: the article refers to the Toyota Hilux as a compact pickup, but the Toyota Tacoma, which is essentially the same vehicle, as "mid-size." There is the same problem for the Honda Ridgeline and the Nissan Navara/Frontier.

The mid-size (US-only?) category isn't really defined and perhaps should be dropped, retaining compact and full-size. At the very least, we shouldn't have the same truck in two different classes! --Pete Tillman (talk) 03:42, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Duelly

The classification of a dually truck with four wheels on the rear axle which is common place in the US is missing. Such trucks include Ford F-350, Dodge 3500 etc....Thehotshotpilot (talk) 15:47, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] VW Saveiro, Chevrolet Montana and Fiat Strada

I know well Volkswagen Saveiro becose I'm from Paraguay (South America) and here they are very popular. I think Saveiro is not a Pickup truck but a Coupe utility, since Saveiro is just a Golf (or the Brazilian version Gol) modified to have a cargo bed.

The same ocurr with Chevrolet Montana and Fiat Strada -they ar Coupe utilities, not Pickups.

Can I remove them from this article?

Juanmoralesdesign (talk) 21:25, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

The coupe utility is a subclass of pickup, therefore those vehicles should stay. Cheers. Stepho (talk) 00:12, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I understand, thanks for the explanation. By the way, here in Paraguay (South America) there are some other models of pickups. Now I remember the Ford F100 made in Argentina (and the Ford F1000 made in Brazil -the same vehicle with a different name (http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_F-1000)) and the Chevrolet C10 (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_C-10). Also, there is a "native" pickup from Argentina -the Rastrojero (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastrojero). --Juanmoralesdesign (talk) 19:42, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Gallery image sizes

Editor Stepho-wrs recently shrunk the gallery images, commenting "MOS says use default (ie thumb, which allows user to override in preferences), which is quite different to using the same value as the default."

The problem is, the current gallery software doesn't allow user preferences to override the gallery default (~100px, ims), so everyone gets those squinty little thumbs. This is a known fault in the software, and there doesn't seem to be an easy fix.

So I usually set galleries to 180px, the default image size, as a workaround. Thanks, Pete Tillman (talk) 23:08, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

OK, give me a day to play around with this a bit. The MOS mentioned a proportional setting that might work. If I can't find a solution then I will revert it back. Stepho (talk) 00:02, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

I have confirmed what Pete said about the squinty thumbs not resizing. Can't see any obvious way around that but I did find the {{gallery}} template. It also doesn't resize but at least it's default width is 180px. By using this template we get what Pete wanted (180px) but without explicitly setting an override in the article. This means that if in the future the template is fixed so that it does resize then we get this feature for free. Best of both worlds, even if the best wasn't as good as we hoped. Stepho (talk) 02:59, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! I wasn't aware of this template (makes note). Also see Template:Image gallery for another alternative. Best, Pete Tillman (talk) 05:04, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

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