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Contents 1 Diaeresis 2 Words and music 3 Peirce 4 Request for information 5 Noel vs Noël -- again 6 Noel Coward Theatre? 7 Including "Mad Dogs and Englishmen (song)" 8 "...the 'T' in Harlow." 9 Family album 10 Move 11 Keir Dullea 12 "The Jerk" and "I'll See You Again" 13 Musical training - lack thereof 14 Revisions 15 Image copyright problem with File:BLITHESP-box hires dvd.jpeg 16 As a dancer; as an actor 17 Ready for GA review? 18 What were his political views? 19 Image of sculpture 20 References 21 Songs 22 New comments from Finetooth 23 Paddington Square - v - Worthing 24 Lolita 25 Congratulations 26 Religious views 27 Documentation format 28 Gay scene 29 incorrect link to "The Divine Comedy" 30 "No-el" or "Nol" ? 31 Noël Coward - Inspiration for Monty Python's Flying Circus? 32 Eskimo Nell author?

[edit] Diaeresis

Wasn't the diaeresis in his given name an affectation of Noel Coward's later years? -- Someone else 23:35 Dec 23, 2002 (UTC)

It doesn't seem to be standard. -- Zoe

They are there in theatre programmes even before 1920. I don't see why they should be called an "affectation". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.87.248.162 (talk) 13:10, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Words and music

Noel Coward was rarely talented in being one of the very few people who wrote words and music, and performed his own songs. Can only think of a handful of others: Bob Dylan, Woodie Guthrie.

Well, the Singer-songwriter article has a longer list. And there's John Lennon and Paul McCartney, of course. John 00:09, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

There are hundreds of singer-songwriters who've been commercially - or if not commercially, then at least critically - sucessful! Martyn Smith 14:11, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Peirce

Peirce is the correct spelling. Hyacinth 08:18, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Request for information

A few years back, BBC2 (I think) were showing plays of NC's; about once a week on Sunday evenings IIRC.

I saw a few of these, but there's one I didn't get to see for any longer than the first few minutes. All I can recall is there was a scene which was something like a moribund old man in bed, talking with a younger man. Older man says something like 'He's a little shit is Reggie! Don't trust him!'

At that point my mother declared that she wasn't having such language on her telly and switched it off.

It's been bugging me for years as to which play that was. Any ideas?

• I've since consulted a Noel Coward expert and he doesn't recognise anything like this dialogue. Must be getting it mixed up with something else....Martyn Smith 14:17, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

I think that's a Harold Pinter play by the sounds of it. The Homecoming, perhaps.

Nuttyskin (talk) 15:29, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Noel vs Noël -- again

So why was the explanation concerning the ë wiped out from the article on 4 June 2006? Was it wrong? Two "Noël" spellings remain in the article, but right now there is no explanation whatsoever. THis is strange. Can someone help? <KF> 12:34, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Noel Coward Theatre?

In London there is a theatre called the Noel Coward Theatre, where the musical Avenue Q is currently situated. Shouldn't this be mentioned in this article? Noel Coward Theatre Baberlp 21:01, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Including "Mad Dogs and Englishmen (song)"

Suggesting include Information about "Mad Dogs and Englishmen"

from Mad_Dogs_and_Englishmen:

Mad Dogs and Englishmen (song) is a 1932 song by Noel Coward, that originated the above phrase

Unfortunately the page Mad Dogs and Englishmen (song) doesn't yet exist.

I could only add the info from Mad_Dogs_and_Englishmen

---

Mad Dogs and Englishmen (song) is a 1932 song by Noel Coward

It's quoted in:

• Mad Dogs and Englishmen (album) is a 1970 live album by Joe Cocker and others
• Mad Dogs and Englishmen (1971 film) is a 1971 film from the same tour as the album
• Mad Dogs and Englishmen (1995 film) a 1995 Canadian/British film
• Mad Dogs and Englishmen (Doctor Who) is a 2002 Doctor Who novel.
• Mad Gods and Englishmen (story) is a 2006 comic strip by Simon Spurrier and Boo Cook, for the character Harry Kipling.

---

Also an excerpt should be added. --Dietmar Lettau 12:19, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "...the 'T' in Harlow."

Famously, Coward was once introduced to actress Jean Harlow, who gushed, "Oh, Noël Coward—I've heard so much about you!" He replied, "The e in Noel is silent, as is the t in Harlow."

I am more inclined to attribute this quote to Margot Asquith (in whose Wikipedia article it is also mentioned, although with a slight variation). Noël Coward preferred the distinct pronunciation of the 'e' of his first name (hence the use of the diaeresis); I remember reading somwhere, perhaps in Graham Payn's memoir, that he absolutely loathed when people would pronounce it 'Nool' instead of 'No-el'. So attributing the quote to him seems dubious, whereas if Jean Harlow pronounced Margot Asquith's first name incorrectly as 'Margott', it makes much more sense. Just a thought. Natedogg923 16:39, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, this is one of Margot Asquith's most famous and well-documented utterances. I'd never heard it attributed to Coward until now. It definitely sounds like something he might have said, so it's understandable someone assumed it must have been a Cowardism. -- JackofOz (talk) 00:16, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

But it wasn't really his style to be bitchy or catty, especially not to someone who might have been a bit common (he was out of genteel poverty himself) but was sincerely a fan of his. 213.123.239.30 (talk) 20:36, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Family album

The link from this entry in the list, takes you to Danielle Steele's novel, not Noël Coward's play Brian Pugh (talk) 12:53, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Move

This was moved by cut and paste (by another user); I attempted to restore the page history by restoring the original versions and using the move tab. This does not to appear to have worked! If someone knows how to sort it out so that the complete page history reappears, please do so. Actually, I think I know why ... I shall try again. cheers Kbthompson (talk) 15:23, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

OK, that's fixed it. Please don't move pages with cut and paste - it loses the associated history of the page. It is often better to actually discuss/or request moves if you're unsure what to do. In this case, I agree that this name is more correct. Kbthompson (talk) 15:31, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Keir Dullea

Most sources say that "Keir Dullea, gone tomorrow" was a response to a journalist who asked him what it was like to work with Dullea in "Bunny Lake Is Missing", not some random party. I will look for a notable citation and update the article.Slithymatt (talk) 16:28, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Then again, it might simply have been a mnemonic guide to the pronunciation of that actor's name. Honestly, why his agent didn't simply suggest standardising it as Qir DuLai, I'll never know. 213.123.239.30 (talk) 20:39, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "The Jerk" and "I'll See You Again"

In "The Jerk" I believe the song "I'll See You Again" is sung during the scene where Navin's girlfriend leaves him. This could be put under the "Parodies and popular culture" section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.76.149.194 (talk) 04:40, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Musical training - lack thereof

We say nothing about the fact that he was never taught music, but just seemed to have a natural gift for melody (in his own way). It's definitely notable when a person who never had a lesson in his life suddenly starts writing musicals, and not half bad ones either. I read that the only key he could play the piano in was E flat, and all his songs were in that key. But this begs the question: he must have had collaborators in the writing and orchestration of his songs, so who were they? -- JackofOz (talk) 00:21, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Revisions

I've added and altered the article substantially. Any previous editor whose contributions I have mucked about with is cordially and humbly invited to do the necessary. I am hoping to get the article up to a state where it can be nominated for GA status, but that will need a fair bit more research, addition and referencing. Tim riley (talk) 17:38, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with File:BLITHESP-box hires dvd.jpeg

The image File:BLITHESP-box hires dvd.jpeg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
• That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --15:45, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] As a dancer; as an actor

In the childhood roles, I don't believe that it is really accurate or necessary to say "as a dancer". He was a child appearing in the chorus of the show. AFAIK, he was not a highly-trained dancer at the time, and so I don't think it is helpful to try to characterise him as a "dancer", even though one source may have done so. -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:40, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

It was purely a ballet that was performed separately from the rest of the show, and as NC's early training was as a dancer I thought the distinction between his early terpsichorean appearance and his rapid leap into the dramatic worth marking, but I shan't make a production number of it. Tim riley (talk) 21:49, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

I stand corrected and added back "dancer". Please check. Note that the article doesn't say that NC's early training was as a dancer. Can you add a sentence and ref? -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:15, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Done. (But not a casus belli, I beg!)

[edit] Ready for GA review?

Due to User:Tim riley's Yeoman work, I think the article is about ready for the GA review. Tim, can you kindly de-link those play names that you think are unlikely to receive an article any time soon? Also, there are still too many redlinks elsewhere in the article - can you de-link the ones are unlikely to receive an article? Let me know if you have any other plans for the article before I nominate it for GA review. Well done! -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:56, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

So done. I'll create articles on the remaining red linked titles a.s.a.p. Tim riley (talk) 08:22, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I consolidated the song list into one paragraph and combined it with the musicals section, to avoid having another bulleted list. Can you please add dates and note if the song comes from a show/revue? Thanks! -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:10, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

OK, now I think we're ready for GA review. -- Ssilvers (talk) 07:16, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

[edit] What were his political views?

There's a section in the Oscar Wilde article on Mr Wilde's political inclinations so I think there should be in this one. --Jupiter Optimus Maximus (talk) 21:35, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Done - under Personal life section. Tim riley (talk) 22:16, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Image of sculpture

Hello, Modernist. Why did you delete the image of the sculpture. The artist contributed it to the article, and it is certainly relevant. I see no rule that forbids our using it. -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:49, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough....it's a long story, but I will let it be..Modernist (talk) 23:14, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Very pleased that the sculpture is back. Excellent to have an image of the mature Coward. Tim riley (talk) 18:50, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

[edit] References

At present the references at the end are split into two sections - works by NC and works by anyone else. Is this a good thing? It makes it hard for the reader to follow up references to e.g. "Day, p. xyz" when Day's name is hidden away in the Coward section under the "Letters" entry. I'm minded to roll the lot together with editors' names taking precedence over the Master's where applicable. Any thoughts will be gratefully received. Tim riley (talk) 14:15, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

And while I'm at it - is it good to include in the "references" books to which no reference has been made in the text? There are several books by NC listed at present to which nothing in the article refers. Tim riley (talk) 14:19, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Songs

I've rejigged wholesale to reflect the popularity of NC's songs as noted on the NC Society's website, using publishers' and PRS statistics. Only "World Weary" of those listed in the earlier draft has had to be removed. Tim riley (talk) 18:53, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

That's excellent! Can you add the citation (and name of songs, if not already there) to the articles for the shows whose songs are listed? Ha! Take that, 13th Amendment! -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:03, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Coward, having been hit on the head with a tin tray by Humphrey Bogart's young son, unblinkingly told Bogart that his next birthday present to the child would be a chocolate-covered hand grenade. I can't imagine why this has just come into my mind! Tim riley (talk) 19:10, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Done for the top ten. I don't think it is all that notable to say that such-and-such is in the top 27, so have stopped at ten except where a show has songs in the top ten and also in the top 27. Tim riley (talk) 10:17, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks very much! -- Ssilvers (talk) 14:34, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] New comments from Finetooth

[Copied from Peer review page] Here are a few more trifles:

Interwar success

• "He absorbed its smartness and pace into his own work, which brought him his first real success as a playwright with The Young Idea, which opened in London in 1923, after a provincial tour, with Coward in one of the leading roles." - This one might be too complex. I'd suggest breaking after "The Young Idea", and starting the next sentence with "The play opened... ".

Done! -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:34, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Post-war career"

• "The daring piece earned Coward new critical praise.[70][61] - The reference order here should be reversed so that [61] precedes [70].

Done! -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:34, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Personal life

• "In the 1950s, Coward left the UK for tax reasons, receiving harsh criticism in the press.[95][61]" - The reference order here should be reversed so that [61] precedes [95].

Done! -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:34, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Further reading

• The last ISBN seems to be missing one digit.

Done! -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:34, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

I consider this article to be a strong candidate for FA. Please let me know when you nominate. Finetooth (talk) 03:43, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Paddington Square - v - Worthing

The earlier quote was indeed pithier, but I have been uneasy about it ever since I began interfering in this article: I find it difficult to believe that as knowledgeable a Londoner as Coward would have spoken of "Paddington Square", when there is no such place. Worthing, per contra, unquestionably exists. See The Importance of Being Earnest, Act 1. But I digress. Tim riley (talk) 19:39, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

But did he ever say the "still wants to marry me and I don't want to disappoint her" part? That's a great quote.... -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:55, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm sure I've seen such a quote ("Fitzroy Square" comes to mind) but I haven't yet tracked it down. Meanwhile I think we ought to settle for the verifiable Worthing variation. But I'll keep looking for the "wants to marry me" variant, which, as I say, I'm sure I've seen somewhere. Tim riley (talk) 20:22, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

I felt sure of it! I felt sure of it! You are a Gentleman and a Scholar. -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:23, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

The earlier quote was pithier, and we should always take the pith. 203.129.49.238 (talk) 02:56, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Lolita

So sorry - I wasn't logged in. The Lolita addition was by me. Tim riley (talk) 17:49, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Congratulations

Well done, nice work..Modernist (talk) 18:26, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Religious views

I have removed the 'atheist' category because Coward was not an atheist but an agnostic: "Do I believe in God? Well yes, I suppose, in a sort of way. It's really terribly hard to say" (Coward: Not Yet the Dodo, Heinemann 1967, p. 53) Tim riley (talk) 07:35, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Documentation format

The format of the citations used in this article is inconsistent. Some of them (many) appear to be MLA style (but use discontinued "p." and "pp." throughout); others are APA style or so-called Harvard style (using dates after authors' names). It needs clean up and updating of its documentation format. --NYScholar (talk) 02:11, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I disagree, and so did the reviewers at the recent FAC. -- Ssilvers (talk) 02:48, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I suggest that you look at the inconsistencies more closely; I think that you just are not seeing them. One of the most recent editions of MLA style was actually put into practice (the Manual) in the MLA's own publications beg. in Jan. 2009 and the other (Handbook) was published after the FAC review date. --NYScholar (talk) 03:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

[Just a point of information: Unlike the style of source citations in this article that are not listed only by last names (MLA style), MLA style puts first name first and last name (surname) last (normal order) in full citations in endnotes [otherwise last names suffice or initial and last name or a short title (and possibly a date if there is more than one ed. of same title) for clarification if more than one work is by same author); there is no need for giving the last name (surname) first if items are not being alphabetized (that is the principle followed). I have noticed that many articles in Wikipedia follow a version of APA style, which uses last names (surnames) first before first names in (end)notes. Harvard style as used in Wikipedia does as well. But MLA style does not. Most documentation styles (MLA, Chicago, APA, Harvard) have eliminated the need for "p." and "pp.", though many people do not know or follow that advance. (MLA style has not used "p." or "pp." for many years.) [Most of these documentation styles also now use/permit a mixture of parenthetical referencing and (end)notes.] --NYScholar (talk) 03:30, 25 June 2009 (UTC)]

[edit] Gay scene

i find the sentence "had little in common with the gay scene of later generations" a little odd. It could be taken to suggest that the gay scene of later generations was 1) homogenous and 2) overly concerned with certain types of sexual activity. Is this sentence really necessary? 90.11.220.169 (talk) 06:28, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

This was an attempt to incorporate an earlier editor's contributions, and is of course open to improvement if you care to undertake it. Tim riley (talk) 10:44, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] incorrect link to "The Divine Comedy"

In the section "Critical reputation and legacy" there is a reference to the pop band "The Divine Comedy," a highly literary and successful British pop band. However, the link her does not go to the pop band, but to Dante's Divine Comedy. Sensibly the link should instead go to "Neil Hannon," the creative force behind the Divine Comedy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.49.173.180 (talk) 05:11, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] "No-el" or "Nol" ?

Is his first name with 1 or 2 syllables? --Green Cardamom (talk) 23:52, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Two - which it would be with or without the diaeresis. The second syllable is more a neutral vowel than a clear 'e'. Tim riley (talk) 11:41, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Noël Coward - Inspiration for Monty Python's Flying Circus?

Today I found this article with the letter of Monty Python's Terry Jones. This letter was, as the author of the article says, sent to the organizers of the event created to celebrate 40 years of the first Monty Python's episode. Celebration took place in Pancevo, Serbia.

In the letter, Terry Jones says that Monty Python's Flying Circus was created in Serbia "when six Oxford and Cambridge students gathered to raise a monument to Noël Coward. Endless debate on how should the sculpture look like and should it be raised in Vojvodina lasted until the morning, when the agreement was finally made to transform the debate into a TV sketch, but without mentioning writer's name..."

Magazine in which this article appeared is pretty serious one, but I couldn't find any other documents about this letter or the mention of roots of Monty Python. I should also note that in the letter, Terry says that students gathered "on a beautiful April day in the middle of June", which makes me wonder if this letter is joke or not.

Anyone has any data on this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zorglub76 (talk • contribs) 14:43, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Eskimo Nell author?

In John Masters' historical novel "By the Green of the Spring", Noel Coward is portrayed as the author of the bawdy poem The Ballad of Eskimo Nell. I have added a note about this in the Eskimo Nell article, but I would like to ask if anyone has come across another reference to this? It seems likely to be true, but some confirmation would be interesting. Patche99z (talk) 12:38, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Mr Masters was indulging in a spot of irony at the expense of his more credulous readers, I suspect. It would be difficult to imagine anyone less likely to have perpetrated such a crude work than Coward. You can rest assured that he did not write Eskimo Nell - there are at least five biographies/studies published which you can search: you will not find mention of that delicate ballad. (En passant, Masters's depiction of Coward in Paris in 1919 is historically impossible: Coward did not make his first journey outside the UK until 1920: see, e.g. Morley, p. 84 and Lesley p. 54) - Tim riley (talk) 18:09, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you - somehow I did not expect any clear references in the biogs etc, but it was worth asking. I guess that Masters was repeating a rumour current at some time between the wars, and got the location and/or date wrong. I do not find it impossible to imagine a first-class poet, with a strong sense of humour, writing a bawdy ballad, though, especially when he was young. Perhaps by "such a crude work" you mean poetically simple or naive? It would now be very difficult to disentangle the original from more recent additions, anyway, so it is impossible to know if it was up to Coward's standard. And I wonder if Masters ever met Coward. Patche99z (talk) 15:33, 11 October 2009 (UTC)