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A news item involving Manuel Zelaya was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In The News section on 28 June 2009.

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[edit] Presidency

I believe that in the article Zelaya should be named De Juro president, and not ex-president, as no country has accepted the presidency of the de facto president. Please comment. Maxipuchi (talk) 07:59, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

He is deposed and is no longer the President. I noticed that the last claimant to the Ottoman Empire recently died. We would not label him the "de juro" Emperor. Madman (talk) 13:57, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Claimants to the Ottoman empire have nothing to do with this article. Some claim he is still the elected President of Honduras until Jan 29, this makes him more than a mere Pretender. Thanks, SqueakBox talk 19:30, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

He is no longer in control and there are serious arguments to his stealing of the 2005 election. The biggest accuser is himself where he admits that he defrauded the electorate with 10% of the vote(you can find his actual comments by him on You Tube and HRN radio I believe has the interview. Cesar Ham, the current UD presidential candidate and one of his biggest fans, admitted as well that Zelaya stole the election so calling him legitimately elected is a farce. They did say ´well everybody does it´as if that were an excuse, but it takes away from his claims that he was elected. He is the ex president and his fate is in the hands of the Congress as to whether he will be restored and chances are he will not because they have deferred to the opinion of the Supreme court before they discuss it and will not convene until after November 29, 2009 because the Congressmen are campaigning right now and are recessed.Summermoondancer (talk) 17:36, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Zelaya is still recognized as the legitimate President of Honduras by every nation in the world. How is he former, except to his Honduran opposition in Honduras?(Finrevs (talk) 04:41, 8 December 2009 (UTC))

[edit] Correct, he is former President

The article is correct. . . . Agre22 (talk) 00:17, 4 December 2009 (UTC)agre22

[edit] Various Things

• Mel Zelaya is no longer president, please put your personal emotions or feelings behind.
• The section "Corruption investigations by the FBI and Honduran prosecutors" has reliable sources, please discuss here before changing anything.
• The Venezuelan ballots were indeed illegal, it also has reliable sources, please put your personal emotions or feelings behind.

thank you 190.53.244.15 (talk) 21:58, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

• Thesection Financial irregularities covers and duplicates everyhing in the section "Corruption investigations by the FBI and Honduran prosecutors". one or other must be deleted.Cathar11 (talk) 23:09, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
• MEL He was inaugurated as President of Honduras on January 27, 2006 and deposed in a coup d'état on June 28, 2009. Roberto Micheletti who wasw appointed actingp presidentin his place was not recognized by any country. Whatis wromng with this text. You have consistently removed it. The notable thingabout him is the coup and ousting/removal. This wikilinks to the article with details on that. What do you propose as an alternative.?Cathar11 (talk) 23:21, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
• The language you use in relation to the poll is very POV. Please tone it down I accept illegal under Honduran (sic) law.23:21, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Hey, 190.53.244.15, I was just wondering why you reverted my reformatting of the headings, and if there was some suggestion you had for me regarding them, instead of just a plain revert with nothing in the edit summary? Just trying to understand it. Thanks! Moogwrench (talk) 23:39, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Remember also, per WP:Reliable_sources#Statements_of_opinion, that editorials/opinion pieces can only be used as WP:Reliable sources for the author's own opinion, not for any fact that they might obstensibly contain. Moogwrench (talk) 23:58, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Manuel Zelaya is still officially recognized as President of Honduras by all of the nations of the world. His term has therefore not ended. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Finrevs (talk • contribs) 04:27, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

his term ended june 28, 2009, he's no longer in office and obviously does not have any power in honduras, it does not control anything, please put your personal feelings aside wikipidians 190.53.244.15 (talk) 04:39, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Personal feelings? It should be noted that he is still the President according to every nation in the world. His term ends in January. If he is not the officially recognized President by the OAS, United Nations, and every country, then Honduras has no President.(Finrevs (talk) 04:43, 8 December 2009 (UTC))

honduras does have president, is Roberto Micheletti 190.53.244.15 (talk) 04:44, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

No nation on earth, nor the United Nations recognizes Roberto Micheletti as President. Fact.(Finrevs (talk) 04:46, 8 December 2009 (UTC))

he removed himself from his job as president when he promoted re-election (See article 239 of the Honduran constitution) 190.53.244.15 (talk) 04:49, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

That is your opinion. The rest of the world disagrees, which is why the rest of the world considers what occurred on June 28, 2009 to be a coup d'etat.(Finrevs (talk) 04:52, 8 December 2009 (UTC))

my opinion??? go and read article 239 of the constitution, he's no longer president, the national congress of honduras recently decided that he will not be reinstated 190.53.244.15 (talk) 04:55, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

I have read article 239 of the Honduran constitution. If Zelaya had violated it, then he should have been put on trial. There is no evidence (or you can source it) besides rumors and unverified claims by the people that forced him out of the country. Instead, he was exiled so that the coup would be considered a fait accompli (Finrevs (talk) 05:48, 8 December 2009 (UTC))

Ugh, people. Just keep it to ousted president, and make a note of the dispute in the lede. That way, it's still "former"; claims that he is still de jure president of Honduras will need sourcing, regardless of whatever ones motives are. Xavexgoem (talk) 05:44, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] No wholesale deletions, please

Cathar11, this wholesale deletion of entire sections (see this diff) is not acceptable. Please discuss this beforehand. Thanks, Madman (talk) 02:09, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

There is an AN/I opened about the person who posted these and his attacks on BLP's.Cathar11 (talk) 02:26, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Certainly the paragraphs that were added need some work, but they are based on facts and properly referenced, by and large. Under what criteria are you deleting them? Can you quote some Wikipedia guideline. Madman (talk) 05:05, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Cathar11's unfounded deletions are indeed disruptive and he does not seem to end them. Alb28 (talk) 13:01, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Easy now, Alb28, Cathar has been adding some verbiage and making some good edits.

And thank you, Cathar, for your recent edits. It looks like we've achieved some sort of consensus article. Yay!! Madman (talk) 22:21, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Alb28, I don't know your history, and I don't know your level of knowledge of Wikipedia, but Wikipedia is based on consensus. As an editor new to the Honduras articles, and apparently Wikipedia (unless of course, you are an experienced editor with a new account), you must realize that the content of these articles are highly disputed (hence the POV tags people keep trying to remove). Editors that have been working months on the content, trying to thrash out differences and reach consensus, don't appreciate someone who just arrived complaining about how their substantial change of POV edits are being reverted. Your changes are not a product of consensus. The WP:BRD policy of Wikipedia suggests that instead of reverting the revert, one should discuss. This is how consensus is arrived at. Avoid labeling certain editors as disruptive, as this tends to be counterproductive even when you feel it is true, and in the case of Cathar11, I believe it is untrue and uncivil. Moogwrench (talk) 22:51, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Los Horcones massacre

Zelaya's father was convicted to 20 years in prison for the Los Horcones massacre, which took place in Zelaya family's ranch Los Horcones in 1975. Police found bodies in a dynamited well which was a mile from Zelaya Sr.'s house. Zelaya Sr. provided a .22 Magnum and a chariot for transporting bodies. Zelaya Jr. visited his father often in prison, according to Victor Meza, Zelaya's former interior minister. Zelaya Sr. received an amnesty on September 3, 1980. According to the Guardian, everyone in the town remembers the slayings, but deny rumors that the younger Zelaya was involved in the killings with his father.<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/8596554 |title=Zelaya hometown provides look at divided Honduras | publisher=Guardian |date=2009-07-07}}</ref><ref>{{cite web | url=http://www.revistazo.biz/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=176:martires-de-los-horcones&catid=19:proyectos&Itemid=19 |title=Mártires de “Los Horcones” |publisher=[[Revistazo]] |date=2009-06-25 | archiveurl=http://www.webcitation.org/5lyLoU2o5 |archivedate=2009-12-12 }}</ref><ref>{{cite news |url=http://www.poder360.com/article_detail.php?id_article=2690&pag=2 |title=Crisis in Honduras - What was really behind the removal of President Manuel Zelaya, and is he likely to be reinstated? | publisher=Poder |archiveurl=http://www.webcitation.org/5lyMjIy49 |archivedate=2009-12-12}}</ref>

Cathar11 claimed that it is "not relevant to article" and removed the citations. I disagree. The fact that his father was convicted for the famous massacre and that he visited his father often in prison (even sleeping on the floor) is very relevant and should be mentioned. Alb28 (talk) 07:07, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Let's review a little BLP policy, shall we? WP:BLP states:

So here's the deal: When we talk about Los Horcones, something that he has never been proven to be involved with or reliably implicated in, we risk doing harm to him. When we talk about the sensational aspects of the case, we approach tabloid-hood, not encyclopedia level discourse.

Were this an article about Zelaya's father, it would be slightly different. But this article is about Zelaya, and this doesn't bear more than a very brief mention, if that. Remember that the presentation of information about a person and the space given to it should take up an amount of space proportional to its importance. Per Wikipedia:DUE#Undue_weight:

This is a small part of the life of his father. It is a practically insignificant part of his, and certainly not related to his notability (his presidency and/or his ouster) Can you understand why an entire section is inappropriate? Remeber that WP:BLP policy requires us to make immediate deletions of material judged to be in violation of this policy, and even provides for this as an exception to the 3-revert rule. If you have questions about this, let me know. Moogwrench (talk) 07:32, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Los Horcones massacre must stay

"So here's the deal: When we talk about Los Horcones, something that he has never been proven to be involved with or reliably implicated in..."

He was not only reliably implicated, he was convicted.

"This is a small part of the life of his father. It is a practically insignificant part of his,..."

One of the most famous massacres in Honduran history (if not the most famous) is so significant that admins should (and may) ban any editor who deletes the event entirely. You can suggest changes, but not delete it. There are more than 50,000 Google hits for Zelaya and Los Horcones in case you want to learn about the event. Alb28 (talk) 21:43, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Zelaya's father was convicted, not Mel. This bio is about Mel, not his father. My original points stand, and for your information, I have read all about the event. I happen to think this is important, but in WP we give due treatment to things in proportion to the overall topic. And stop threatening people over a content dispute, it is unseemly. Moogwrench (talk) 23:00, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

I am tired of a POV editor pushing a smear on a BLP which is not relevant to the articleCathar11 (talk) 23:10, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

it should be easy to ref that the world does consider there to be a connection between Horcones and Zelaya; and if we can ref this hugely important event in young Zelaya's life we should include it here; to not link to that article would be unacceptable. Thanks, SqueakBox talk contribs 14:36, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

I think that if it is mentioned, it should be relatively brief for WP:DUE reasons (as in, I don't think an entire section on it is merited) and it should not be written in such a way as to imply that Mel Jr. had any involvement in the Los Horcones massacre unless very reliably sourced. Moogwrench (talk) 17:23, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

This sounds sensible. Thanks, SqueakBox talk contribs 18:32, 17 December 2009 (UTC)