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^{edit · history · watch · purge}

Hello, Im not an editor so i did not want to change anything.

I noticed that you said in the start of the third paragraph that "According to legend Lancelot's father is King Ban of Benoic and his mother is named Elaine"

But in the start of the Early prose and poetry section you state "Lancelot was the only child of King Ban (Pant) of Benoic (Genewis) and his queen Helaine (Clarine)."

Perhaps it is because of different early text, im not sure. Elaine is the name of the women who gave birth to Galahad. Just thought i would point it out.

Just trying to help.

WP Mythology: Where are the references ? Goldenrowley 02:46, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Article also describes Lancelot as "less interesting" than other characters. That strikes me as pure POV. John Carter 22:45, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

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Start

This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.

High

This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Comments:

^{edit · history · watch · purge}

Hello, Im not an editor so i did not want to change anything.

I noticed that you said in the start of the third paragraph that "According to legend Lancelot's father is King Ban of Benoic and his mother is named Elaine"

But in the start of the Early prose and poetry section you state "Lancelot was the only child of King Ban (Pant) of Benoic (Genewis) and his queen Helaine (Clarine)."

Perhaps it is because of different early text, im not sure. Elaine is the name of the women who gave birth to Galahad. Just thought i would point it out.

Just trying to help.

WP Mythology: Where are the references ? Goldenrowley 02:46, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Article also describes Lancelot as "less interesting" than other characters. That strikes me as pure POV. John Carter 22:45, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Lancelot is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.

June 16, 2004

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Not promoted

[edit] old comments

This article needs to be updated. It is now know that Sir Walter Map likely had nothing to do with the Prose Lancelot's creation.

[edit] Chevalier Mal Fet

I fail to see why the inclusion of a pseudonym here is not needed. Isopropyl 13:58, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

It just doesn't need to go in the first sentence. If you want to add it to the appropriate part of the article, please do.--Cúchullain ^t/c 17:59, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I've added it to T. H. White's section, as it is the title of his book on Lancelot. Cariel 05:25, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chretien

I editted the titels of Chrétien de Troyes's works. They are Cligès not Cligés and Le Chevalier à la Charette NOT de la charette.—Preceding unsigned comment added by DanMaroun (talk • contribs)

You're quite correct about Cliges, but "de la charette" is much more common than "à la Charette". --Cúchullain ^t/c 21:31, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestions

Herbert James Draper, Lancelot and Guinevere

I know it is not locked for me but since it is I am less inclined to alter it. It is basically sound but needs clean-up. One thing I noticed up front is that the very long sections look as though they could use some subsections. By the way here is a nice painting if anyone is inclined to put it in appropriately.Dave 15:05, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

To my surprise I can't find any comparison between Lancelot and the historical figure of William the Marshal. Maggy Rond (talk) 11:36, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup tag

I put a cleanup tag on this article, because of several things:

The already-pointed-out large block of text needs to be divided into subsections
It has no references or ref section
Needs to be checked against the WP:MOS criteria for the ordering of its sections.

Also, none of the reasons it was denied FA status seem to have been addressed, here Wrad 02:25, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

This article is mostly just a dump from the 1911 Britannica. It needs to be rewritten, but I'm not sure a cleanup tag is appropriate.--Cúchullain ^t/c 21:09, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

You're probably right. It is probably too general of a tag. Anyway, it needs fixing. It's Lancelot! We can't leave him with a blemish! :) Wrad 02:42, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion:

This Lancelot article needs not editing but complete replacement. The 1911 Britannica was good, but much of what this article says is now simply wrong. Not only was Walter Map dead when the cycle attributed to him was composed, but it is incorrect to say that there is no critical edition of the prose Lancelot. And some of the material naturally reflects the bias of scholars like Jessie Weston (who wrote for the 1911 Britannica) and others whose views are now disputed or discarded. Despite the excellent and well-deserved reputation of the Britannica 5th, a 96-year-old article on Chretien, the prose Lancelot, etc. is of little use and passes on a good deal of incorrect or misleading information. Njl2 16:45, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I certainly agree with you. Even in English there's a very good edition of the complete Lancelot-Grail cycle now, and at least one translation of just the Prose Lancelot that I know of. This needs a complete rewrite.--Cúchullain ^t/c 02:28, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Here is my replacement for the article. Hopefully, this will be a good starting point for others to edit. Portia1780 (talk) 20:18, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Early or Welsh references?

I've never seen Lancelot in any early or native British literature. Is he just a fiction made up by later continental authors? ---G.T.N. (talk) 23:56, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

is he not lluch. llauynnauc who appears in the early Arthurian poem "Pa wr yw y porthor?" and who is also listed with a slightly different spelling in Culhwch and Olwen. Loomis thought so. Llwch could be translated as "lake" (cf Gaelic cognate loch) and someone who didn't know Welsh might think he was "Llauynnauc of the Lake" The first "u" could easily be mistaken for an "n". In Culhwch and Olwen there are in fact many Irish names imported into Welsh and so "Lluch Llauynnauc" might be a a Welshification (Cymricization if you prefer) of an Irish "Lúgh Lamh--" a version of the name "Lúgh Lamhfhada" - Lugh of the Long Hand. Who is identified with the Celtic solar god Lugos. Lúgh Lamhfhada appears in a proper Welsh cognate (not just a Welsh spelling of the Irish) as Lleu Llaw Gyffes - Lleu of the Swift Hand.

So Du Lac is a mistranslation of Llwch which in turn does not mean "lake" but is a Welsh spelling of the Gaelic Lúgh Lamhfhada which in turn represents the God Lugos. Maybe. Barcud Coch (talk) 05:50, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

That's what Loomis suggested, but as far as I know that theory does not have a wide acceptance, being based almost entirely upon speculative linguistics.--Cúchullain ^t/c 12:15, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Awful book dump

This article is hardly the proper tone for wikipedia. Fine for a private book or treatise, but not a public encyclopedia. 68.101.130.214 (talk) 09:59, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. I'm going to try to work on this in my spare time. Portia1780 (talk) 21:37, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

The readings list seems to have additions from either the books' own authors or editors. How/Why does the following merit inclusion, for example?:

K. Sarah-Jane Murray, "From Plato to Lancelot: A Preface to Chretien de Troyes," Syracuse University Press, 2008. ISBN-10 081563160X —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.235.89.54 (talk) 03:22, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Complete revamp

OK, after much work, I've reworked this article completely. I tried to get rid of a lot of the weasel words and opinion all over the article, especially when talking about the quality of Medieval romances on Lancelot. That info is probably best moved over into the articles for the Prose Lancelot, Le Chevalier de la charrette, etc.

I also tried to put in a little more information on Lancelot's adventures. I am currently reading the Prose Lancelot (ick), so I will continue to develop this section.

Hopefully, no one will feel the need to completely revert this article. If you feel like I've been delete-happy, please add stuff back in where appropriate (and please don't flame!). Thanks! Portia1780 (talk) 20:21, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Good start. There needs to be something about Lanzelet and how it relates to Chretien and the greater development of the legend. I also think the "adventures" really needs to refer directly to the sources used it's almost entirely from the Prose Lancelot but that's not made clear, and there is no accounting for different versions- for instance Meleagant doesn't show up until near the end in Malory. That's one thing the Britannica version did well. But good work with the rehaul, I know it's a daunting task.--Cúchullain ^t/c 20:27, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Arondight

The sources in this section are frankly unreliable. Someone mind fixing this up? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.11.93.46 (talk) 01:16, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Indeed they are. I amended the current section to point out that the info it contains are only confirmed within the scope of the graphical novel Fate/zero. Also, several facts were not referenced even in the Fate/zero trivia page they were said to come from, so I placed several "citation needed" tags in place. I am not knowledgeable enough reg. Arondight or Lancelot to do anything else, alas. --Tovarich1917 (talk) 13:55, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I removed the section as not notable and not sourced to reliable publications.--Cúchullain ^t/c 15:32, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't know if it should be removed, after all such trivia is often seen on WP, but I do agree that it would at least need to be counterbalanced by infos on the "older" version of the Arondight myth (though from a trans-historical viewpoint, the renewal of such a myth in genres such as Fate/zero is as much interesting). Anyway, I also removed the Fate/zero site from the reflist, but left it in "external links" should someone be interested in this version of Arondight.

Also, we have another, more serious problem : "Arondight" (which is listed in Category:Mythological_swords redirects to Lancelot, but now there are no references to Arondight in the article anymore. Will try to find a way around that.

--Tovarich1917 (talk) 13:56, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Added a simple reference to the sword's name, with a link towards a more reputable ref. on Google Books. I was unable to find any additional details, though.

--Tovarich1917 (talk) 14:16, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

The fate/zero version is trivial, and does not belong here - at least until reliable, published sources are found indicating that it is important enough to the subject to warrant inclusion. The external link is likewise not necessary, per WP:ELNO. I have removed the mention of "Arondight" entirely, as the only source was a passing mention in one book from 1900. I have never encountered to name "Arondight", or much of any discussion of Lancelot's swords, in any real medieval romance, nor does it appear in Christopher Bruce's Arthurian Name Dictionary. It will probably be worth checking into G. D. West's An Index of Proper Names in French Arthurian Prose Romances and An Index of Proper Names in French Arthurian Verse Romances 1150–1300 to see if it really appears in genuine medieval texts, and if so, where. However, I suspect it's relatively modern. Whatever its source, it certainly wasn't widespread enough to go in the intro.--Cúchullain ^t/c 15:59, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Then this page http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Arondight&redirect=no should be deleted too. As to fate/zero, personally I don't care, but doesn't WP love to include "in popular culture" facts ? And it can be interesting, too, since it's that tolerance for "popular culture" that makes WP more than your average encyclopedia. Anyway. Like I said, I don't really care. Just my two cents. --Tovarich1917 (talk) 18:01, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually, Wikipedia (thankfully) seems to be trending away from Trivia and "in popular culture" sections. Clearly material discussing Lancelot (or whatever) in popular culture can be relevant and interesting, but it needs to be attributed to reliable sources and carefully balanced according to its importance to the subject. And like anything, it needs to be cited to reliable sources to be included.--Cúchullain ^t/c 18:32, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, I do agree that that trend should have its limits ^_^. --Tovarich1917 (talk) 11:16, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Fictional character or real?

The article does not make it clear if Lancelot was a real or fictional character. Considering the legend, this should be made clear. Dotancohen (talk) 12:18, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Do not, by their very nature & definition, "legendary" characters imply an "unknown condition" as their status considering whether they were literal historical personas or mythic creations of folklore? 4.242.174.226 (talk) 11:14, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

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