Talk:Isan Information & Talk:Isan Links at HealthHaven.com

Isan is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.

This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on February 5, 2005.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
August 23, 2004	Featured article candidate	Promoted
January 13, 2009	Featured article review	Demoted
Current Status: Former featured article

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^{edit · history · watch · purge} I didn't rate this article, but agree it is FA-quality. It does, however, have weaknesses, due primarily to the fact that Isan is progressing so rapidly. That, in turn, is due to the fact that dictator Sarit Dhanarajata was Isan on his mother's side, but he is not mentioned in the article. Pawyilee (talk) 11:47, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Isan appears on Thailand Portal as the "Selected article" of Febuary 2007.

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[edit] Older comments

This article follows the plan of Wikipedia:WikiProject_Countries; it doesn't have to, but I found it useful. Future developments may want to refer to that project for guidance. Markalexander100 06:37, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I clicked through to the Talk page to say that this article is brilliant! --AStanhope 14:52, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pakama

Why do Thai people call men's traditional wrap-around clothing pakama? This is the same as the Old Japanese form of the word for the same sort of men's wrap-around clothing; in modern Japanese, the word is pronounced as hakama (はかま、袴). Very weird! Ebizur (talk) 23:38, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Nobody seems to know. (Thai: ผ้าขาวม้า) is made up of three syllables that individually mean cloth, white and horse. A correct orthographic rendition would be PHA-KHAO-MA, but the middle syllable is always elided to KHA- (Thai: ขะ). Nobody associates it with 'white' or 'horse', and transcribing it as pakama or pakamah comes closer to how it sounds. Perhaps it is related to Old Japanese, though /pha/ meaning 'cloth' makes sense in a Thai context, if not the other two syllables. Maybe it approximates the Japanese sound. But that begs the question of why the middle syllable is spelled one way and pronounced another. It's pure speculation. Another thing, it is NOT the men's traditional wrap-around clothing, but a loincloth used for bathing without a bathroom; or a turban, or a dozen or so other handy uses. They are so handy that many Isan men have one knotted about their waist wherever they go. On the other hand, the traditional wrap-around that you only see as a costume these days is PHANUNG (Thai: ผ้านุ่ง).

(Thai: ผ้านุ่ง) the panung, an article of dress for both Thai men and women of ...a century ago, taking the form of a piece of cloth wrapped once around the body and tied in a knot called ชายพก [chai-pok, fringe tied] in the vicinity of the navel. If the ends of the cloth are left dangling, this mode of dress is called นุ่งผ้าลอยชาย [panung-loy-chai, 'loy' meaning float]. As a rule the ends of the cloth are brought bottom edge, and the resulting roll brought out between the legs to the small of the back, where it is stuck behind the belt. So Sethaputra, New Model English Thai dictionary.

Pawyilee (talk) 17:43, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] computer literacy

Does anyone have a source for the bit about most children being "well adept" in the use of word-processing etc? I'd be surprised if schools in the wilds of Chaiyaphum are particularly well-equipped with computers, and I'd be even more surprised if IT is so well-taught that most of the children are that successful. Henry ^Flower 09:49, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, I don't know about "well adept", but I DO know you can log onto the Internet in the wilds of Chaiyaphum as long as you're in range of a TH GPRS cell phone tower. Cell phones in the 2,000 baht range can link a computer to the 'net at 375 Baht for 6,000 minutes. The post office has a 5,000 baht desktop phone/modem that functions like a cell phone, and gives a land-line quality connection that's better than cell phones; it can be equipped with a 2,000 baht antenna for better coverage in fringe areas. But, with GPRS antennas sprouting like mushrooms, there aren't many fringe areas left! Most, if not all, schools, even at the primary level, have computer labs, so children with the motivation can easily become adept. Check out the webboard for the school in my village [1] And here's one from Chaiyaphum: [2]

Here is a list of schools that have their own web sites, that is so long it takes forever to download! Pawyilee (talk) 16:05, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "vehicle plow field"

I've only ever heard this phrase used in Isan descriptively, not as a name for motorized tillers. The one described here is called Rot-E-Taek รถอีแต๊ก Copy-and-paste the Thai into Google Images for pix of same. Doing the same for ควายเหล็ก as given here returns more pix of buffalo than of E-Taek, and includes a various other tractors. Rot- รถ is a classifier for any wheeled vehicle except ox carts (which are classified as "volumes", being also a volume of 2,000 litres). "E-" อี is a prefix of contempt; Taek แต๊ก is onomatopoetic for the characteristic sound of the 5-kw Diesel engine. Trucks belt-driven by a similar, 8-kw engine are called Rot-E-Taen รถอีแตนท์ onomatopoetic for the deeper sound of the larger engine. Also, while Kubota dominates the market, other brands are also on offer. It may also be worth noting that it takes 4-5 years to train a buffalo to plow, and then in harness with an older buffalo that already knows how. This is why "kwai" is a synonym for "stupid", and also means it will be extremely difficult to shift back to using buffalo as the cost of Diesel fuel rises. I'll upload some pix as I get a round tuit. Image:E-Tak and Buffalo.JPG for starters. Pawyilee (talk) 10:03, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Image:Isan Rot-E-Taen.JPG Pawyilee (talk) 11:15, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject Cambodia

Sorry on behalf of whoever spammed this page with a WP:CAMBODIA tag. I've removed it, don't want to start another border incident! --Paxse (talk) 14:14, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Racism & skin-color discrimination

An anonymous editor deleted most, if not all, references to Racism and Thaification in Isan. The matter deleted is problematic, not because it isn't true, but because it was poorly worded and largely unsourced. Also deleted was the fact that Thaification has been largely sucessfull in Isan, but, being unsourced, also does not state why; namely, that Thaification has been modified since about the end of the Vietnam War to validate and restore much of the Lao culture in its Isan incarnation. So, instead of wholesale, anonymous deletions, how about discussing here how much of it can be brought up to standards, and saved. Pawyilee (talk) 09:40, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Merge proposal, Isan Celebrities

I have tagged Isan Celebrities, suggesting that it is merged into this article. I do not think that the list warrants an article of its own. Chzz ► 11:45, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Agree pretty much. My intention in creating the article is that as Isan people become more educated they will seek to be more aware of people of note from their region. My contact with Isan and its people (as well as Thais generally) over a 17 year period indicates that there is a growing awareness and popularity of Isan celebrities. WildDog1960 (talk) 23:16, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Strong support for merge. I believe the cities wikiprojects recommend that locality articles include lists of notable residents. Gonzonoir (talk) 09:23, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Agree. Unless a list is exceptionally long enough to justify its own page, such as for example, alumni lists for famous schools or universities, this short list of Isan Celebs could easily be part of the article. Care should be taken however to maintain the quality of the Isan page as it has been an FA.--Kudpung (talk) 04:31, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Link Correction

The link in the external links section: "Basic Isaan phrases (Some basic Isaan phrases with sound files)" is dead and has moved to a new address at http://siamsmile.webs.com/isaan/isaan.html. I tried editing in the new address, but it was removed. This needs correcting. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blutey (talk • contribs) 10:21, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Done. --Pawyilee (talk) 06:40, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Reverted by Kudpung. --Pawyilee (talk) 06:56, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Er... I haven't touched this article since 20 September, and that was just a small format change (line spacing). I wouldn't dream of reverting an edit of Pawilee's without discussing it with him first.--Kudpung (talk) 08:22, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

The link was removed by a bot. The link is harmless but the site may be hosted with a web hosting company whose IP has been banned by Wikipedia. In the case of Thailand this is not difficult to understand. However, the only workaround is to contact the bot's owner - also difficult as bot owners tend to hide behind layers of identities and ignore complaints about their bots.--Kudpung (talk) 09:18, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! The linked article by "Boo Boo" adds more than just the phrases, and, if safe to visit, adds to our article. Sorry I tho't the bot was from you. As to bots, I guess they are, like me, obsessive-compulsive, so pity them. --Pawyilee (talk) 10:27, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Economy

Conflicts with main article Economy of Isan as to use of tractors vs. water buffalo. The subheading states without source: The main piece of agricultural equipment in use today is the 'rot tai na' (Thai: รถไถนา, lit. "vehicle plow field") colloquially referred to as 'kwai lek' (Thai: ควายเหล็ก, or "iron/steel buffalo"), but erroneously implies this refers only to the 'etak' (Thai: อีแตก) pictured. 'Rot tai na' refers to 'any' tractor, whether tracked, 2 or 4-wheel. The 2-wheel 'etak', named from the prefix อี signifying contempt + the perceived sound of its engine, is almost as difficult to handle as a water buffalo, and is rapidly being replaced by the 4-wheel variety. Isan also is prospering at present at it has been blessed with ample rain the past few years, feeding to quite extensive hydraulic engineering, but I, too, lack sources, so can't make needed changes. --Pawyilee (talk) 13:00, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

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