Talk:Hip hop production Information & Talk:Hip hop production Links at HealthHaven.com

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[edit] Criticism

This is one of the worst articles I've seen on wiki in almost every way. But I dont have the energy or compunction to argue about it. All I can do is tell you so.

[edit] Why Just Hiphop?

There are many other kinds of production where the producer makes the instrumentation. I say this needs to be generalized to include all electronic music production, including various forms of techno, new wave, trance, DnB, Pop, etc. 70.122.48.172 (talk) 07:25, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

It's called a sub-topic. Hyacinth (talk) 09:14, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] intro

The intro seems redundant. Hip hop producers obviously are the guys who do hip-hop production.--Urthogie 13:04, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, done.--Graphic 22:16, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

There are an enormous amount of rap songs that do not feature samples of other artists. It is in no way critical to the song. --Puppetrevolt 10:44,26 February, 2006 (UTC)

"Seeing as sample clearance can take substantial parts of profit out of record sales for artists who sample, producers opt to create completely original recordings using computer-generated beats."

Learn to read, thanks. --Mod 04:18, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] expand

in my opinion, the topic does not really go in depth into the history and progression of the history of hip hop production.

and a History of hip hop production can't be created why? --Mod 05:50, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I think a three-to-four paragraphs section would be sufficient. I'm not sure if that demands a whole separate article however. Either way, the topic definately needs to be addressed --chub 06:57, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

The history should not be its own section. The various histories should be introduced inside the paragraphs on mixing, synthesizing or whatever(e.g the first guy to do this was...). A separate history section would be bad.--Urthogie 12:01, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History Section

Review the following and add to it as you see fit. When you feel it's at its fullest, transfer it to the main page. --Mod 19:32, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History

[edit] The roots

The first instruments used in hip-hop production were two turntables, a mixer, and a microphone. DJ Kool Herc used the mixer fade controls to switch between two turntables playing the identical records at different times. The result was that a section of a record could be effectively prolonged, the parallel to today's loop-based DAWs and hardware loop equipment.

[edit] The 1980s

Kurtis Blow became the first artist to use a digital sampler, the Fairlight, in a song. The Roland TR-808 was introduced in 1980. The E-mu SP-12 came out in 1985, capable of 2.5 seconds of recording time. The SP-1200 promptly followed with expanded recording time. The Akai MPC-60 came out in 1987, capable of 12 seconds of sampling time. In 1983, Run-DMC recorded "It's Like That" and "Sucker MCs," two songs which relied completely on beats, ignoring samples entirely. In 1986, Afrika Bambaataa released Planet Rock, which gave rise to the fledgling techno genre, along with the genre's own pioneers Derrick May and Juan Atkins by sampling Kraftwerk's "Trans Europa Express."

I'm really suprised this article has nothing on the New Jack Swing era and Teddy Riley, as they were very critical moments in the development of hip hop as a popular genre. 70.122.48.172 (talk) 07:36, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The 1990s and on

The MPC3000 was released in 1994, followed by the MPC2000 in 1997, and the MPC2000XL in 2000. With the 1994 release of Notorious BIG's Ready to Die, Sean Combs and his assisting producers ushered in a new style where entire sections of records were sampled, instead of short snippets. Records like "Warning" (Isaac Hayes's "Walk On By"), and "One More Chance (Remix)" (El Debarge's "Stay With Me") epitomized this aesthetic.

[edit] Stuff that it needs

Mention of Planet Rock and whatever that shit revolutionized
Run dmc using first purely electronic beat

Modulatum, you need to readup. It isn't explained what Planet Rock really accomplished as far as pioneering in hip-hop(and Run-DMC's production accomplishment is kind of inaccurately presented as well). Readup. --Urthogie 12:22, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

What the hell is readup? And if you know something I don't, just add it to the section, that's how wikipedia works. Planet Rock kickstarted the techno scene on the East Coast, while other lesser known DJs started what would become detroit techno at the same time. As for Run-DMC, what is inaccurately presented? The fact that the two songs were the first of their kind to rely on drum machines? I've "read up" when I started writing this section, perhaps you want to do the same before you start pointing out arbitrary flaws. --Mod 20:05, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Their significance is in the case of Planet Rock understated and in the case of RUN-DMC poorly explained.--Urthogie 20:15, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Planet Rock was by no means some godly record. It served its purpose as a catalyst to the techno scene and faded into obscurity and hip-hop lore. As for Run-DMC, what is poorly explained?--Mod 20:19, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

It was significant, specifically, not for the techno stuff but for the integration of electro. Bambaataa was the first electro hop. Also, you have the date for him wrong. He released Planet Rock before RUN-DMC released anything. As far as Run-DMC i'll do some research and get back to you on that with specifics. Peace,--Urthogie 21:36, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

The Wikipedia link Planet Rock - The Album lists it as 1986. The single "Planet Rock" was released in 1982, however techno didn't develop momentum until mid-1980s. And electro-hop is a non-genre in modern terms. If you want to 'emphasize that Planet Rock influenced it and not techno, go right ahead. MOD 21:57, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah but thats the album, not the single. By the way, I commented on your last.fm on the Edan entry.--Urthogie 22:16, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Like I said above, techno didn't take off until the mid-1980s. While the album release might not be the sole reason for it, the official first release of Bambaataa is not to be overlooked. As for the single, it's akin to 50 Cent's Disco Inferno, released long before the album and already hyped up enough. MOD 22:25, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

There are three main styles in hip-hop production.

1. Live bands (see below)

2. Drum machines and other digital equipment like synthesizers. This was introduced by Bambaataa I believe and is highly influential if you listen to production in the late 90s and later, e.g. Timbaland. One of the main reasons for its resurgence in popularity were the legal difficulties and high costs with sampling.

3. Sampling/breaks. This is what interests me the most and it is integral to hip-hop from around 86-96. It also evolved into the more fractured choppy sound begun by Premo on songs like Full Clip, Nas is Like, When I B on the Mic, etc. There is a LOT that needs to be written about sampling. Does anyone want to discuss it a little, so we can make a plan for a better resource on the history of hip-hop production?

I also propose splitting the article into seperate "history of hip-hop production" and "technical aspects of hip-hop production". These articles are potentially very big.

Taramenos 22nd July 2006.

[edit] Live Instruments?

Live instrumentation is rare? Thats false and is an over statement. Back when they were strictly sampling and looping breaks, but live insturmentation is any but rare in hip hip. Live instruments are very active in hip hp music and if anything are added to songs with samples, espsically bass lines. When someone speeds up a sample to make a song they usually remake the bassline using live bass. When someone plays a melody on a keyboard, even those that are synths, thats technically live. Guitars, pianos, bass, brass is used widley in hip hop sense the mid 90s and espaiclly nowdays live music is everywhere.

"""Rapper's Delight" (The Sugarhill Gang) and "The Breaks" (Kurtis Blow) were recorded with live studio bands.

Are you serious? Rappers delight is probaly one of the biggest examples of sampling we have. The original sample "Good Times" by Chic most likely was but not Rappers delight which samples from it. If anything the bass was redone.

What you fail to recognize is that Rapper's Delight used live instruments to play the Chic bassline.--Urthogie 22:08, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

To avoid royalty fees, no less. It's still the same method of song recording. MOD 22:23, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

-So a bassline thats 1 instrument, isnt saying live studio bands to much?.

They had more than a bass, I'm pretty sure. They had an entire studio band-- including drums, and all. No drum machine.--Urthogie 11:30, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I wrote a bit to explain this. Earliest recorded hip-hop was with live bands because the record companies didn't think sampling/Djing was acceptable, as far as i know.

Hey everyone lets not forget that samples were originally made from live instruments. Lets also not forget how frequently live guitar is sampled in hip hop, such as many 80s groups that still had a funk\disco influence, and especially nowadays. Might wanna go listen to some of your collection again, they tend to squeeze a guitar in quite a bit. 70.122.48.172 (talk) 07:27, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Live instruments didn't originally play the samples, DJs did, and Rapper's Delight is a sample, they just claimed they used a live band, probably to avoid getting sued. The live band was a lie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.160.188.3 (talk) 15:13, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] About mics

Almost all that is stated under 'vocal recording' is true, except the sentence about condenser microphones. The 'dying' of condensers due to the loss of charge after years of service used to happen with electret type condenser mics only, and in recent years this problem has been solved by technology - at least in professional equipment. Mics that need phantom power (i.e. 'real' condensers, not of the electret type) have never shown this problem anyway. BTW the requirement of phantom power is only a minor disadvantage of condenser microphones. Almost every mixer, pre-amp or audio interface used in pro or home setups provides this kind of power supply. It can even be drawn from a computer's usb-connection. The main disadvantage of a condenser is its delicacy, being the only reason dynamics are still in use for live performance.--JustinTerested 15:10, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] too many commercial links

people are trying to make money with these links. we ought to just link to free sites - we dont need to help these pay sites boost their pagerank like this —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 165.173.126.147 (talk) 18:12, 14 May 2007 (UTC).

Correct. I've removed them. — Satori Son

[edit] Needs additional citations for verification

Why and how so? Hyacinth (talk) 09:14, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] May contain original research or unverified claims

Where and how so? Hyacinth (talk) 09:14, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

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