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Talking Watch, Talking Watches, Talking Clock, Talking Bible, Talking... independentliving.com | Dual loyalties: Commentary on to talk or not to talk by Ashok Sinha issuesinmedicalethics.org | Dr. John Di Guglielmo physpharm.fmd.uwo.ca |
[edit] Lack of coherence, maybe article needs protectionThe article opens with this claim: "It is a pretty much established fact that Marconi stole his work from Jagadish Chandra Bose from India, whose work was not accepted as India was under British rule at that time.It is known as Italian Navy Coherer Scandal[4]." which is pretty incoherent with other parts of the article stating that Marconi's first radio experiment was in 1893, while the external link (4) refers to a communication to the Royal Society in 1899. The claim - both for tone and incoherence with the rest - looks like the result of an editing war. So maybe the article should be revised and protected. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.96.203.198 (talk) 09:17, 18 November 2008 (UTC) [edit] Patent (cont.)Marconi was a common thief who should be praised in the same breath as James Burke and Thomas Edison. He may be credited as the first man to have achieved controlled radio transmission but the work was Tesla's. [[1]] --Elliott Fontain [edit] patentYou seem to misunderstand what a patent meant in the 1890s. Although the idea has been bastardised now, back then you could only patent an artificial "process, machine, article of manufacture, or composition of matter" -- indeed until 1880 you had to provide a working model of it along with your patent application. Marconi didn't patent "radio" in the broad sense of all electromagnetic radiation phenomena, which would indeed have been ridiculous; he patented a system for actually using it as a practical form of communication, and presented a practical, long range device for doing so which was in full scale production and first commerical operation in the UK by 1898 (before Tesla's radio patent was even filed). There was a certain degree of resentment not just from Tesla, but also the many other workers in the field, because very little of Marconi's first patent was truly ground breaking. But it was all much, much better than their scratchings, and it did indeed include some new science. It was Marconi who discovered that you got better range by shielding various parts of the receiver from interference; that range was proportional to the square root of antenna height; that you could produce a directional beam by placing the antenna at the focus of a metallic parabola; and who invented coherer designs an order of magnitude more sensitive than Lodge's original design. And it was Marconi who invented "syntony" (what we would nowdays call "tuning"), invented the concept of radio channels and built a device that was able to operate with multiple channels simultaneously, etc. etc. Marconi's patent specifically says "My invention relates in great measure to the manner in which the above apparatus is made and connected together." That is the sort of thing you could patent in the 1890s, and none of the other contenders for the crown had anything remotely as good before him, nor indeed for several years afterward. An interesting overview is at [2] (PDF, 1.15 MB) Securiger 17:31, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC) With most major technological devices, the claim that "person A invented device B" is usually at least an oversimplification, and radio is no exception. What we call "radio" today bears little resemblance to the devices that came out in Marconi's time. As far back as Faraday and Hertz in the early 1800s, it was clear to most scientists that wireless communication was possible, and many people worked on developing many devices and improvements. The first wireless telegraphy devices started appearing in the 1860s. Edison, for example, patented one in 1885 for use by trains. Marconi's patent in 1896 was not a particularly remarkable development at the time (it primarily made use of the "coherer" invented by Branly in 1892), though his later contributions were significant improvements. Marconi and Braun shared the 1909 Nobel for "contributions to the development of vireless telegraphy". The first human voice ever transmitted wirelessly was by Canadian-American scientist Reginald Aubrey Fessenden. A good source is the book Syntony and Spark: the Origins of Radio, Hugh G. J. Aitken, ISBN 0471018163. --Lee Daniel Crocker I removed a comment here that replaced the common misattribution of Marconi with the misattribution of Tesla, which was no improvement (see Lee Daniel Crocker/The Myth of the Lone Inventor. Also, the common word for someone who receives a prize is "recipient" rather than "receiver", but for some reason I hesitated before replacing it in this case... :-) I have no problem calling him the "father of radio" since he gave us a working commercial system, but in fairness, the patent was eventually awarded to Tesla.
Doesn't Nathan Stubblefield deserve at least a mention here? Brutannica 00:55, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
"...and a power of 100 times more than any radio signal previously produced." I would prefer this sentence had an actual number that wasn't a multiple of some other unknown quantity.--Jsnow 05:16, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Interesting Fact????12.214.126.176 made this edit: Cacey Lamparek did again in 2001 not realizeing it was alredy invented. -- it didn't fit into this article, but it might be an interesting addition SOMEWHERE in wikipedia if it can be expanded and confirmed. TastemyHouse 00:02, 9 November 2005 (UTC) [edit] Didn't do itBravo for noting his much-ballyhooed transatlantic sig may've been his imagination! It continues to be treated as authentic, including in a (very expensive) Canadian Heritage Minute TV commercial. Trekphiler 07:17, 4 December 2005 (UTC) [edit] This article is not NPOVThe article suggests that Marconi's patent was overturned because of US Military. Maybe we can believe in that when we see actual record, but that does not eliminate another problem - it credits Marconi with invention of radio based on few facts such as that it did not know of the works of others. What Marconi invented was not radio, but radio media and should be credited for that. Radio has already been invented. The top of this page suggests that Marconi has invented "tuning" and called it "syntony". Well, maybe he called it that, but "resonance" and "tuning" to achieve it was there for quite a while (and being done) before he came at it. Example of this. This article is in urgent need of truth. --Aleksandar Šušnjar 05:06, 14 January 2006 (UTC) Another interesting site, although second-hand information: More on Nikola Tesla's Priority in the Invention of Radio. --Aleksandar Šušnjar 05:22, 14 January 2006 (UTC) The current article:
--Aleksandar Šušnjar 00:39, 21 January 2006 (UTC) [edit] Who invented radioMaybe its time to move this section to its own article. I came here for a biography, not to read about the dispute. The dispute belongs under Radio or Invention of Radio. The same dispute is in Wright brothers and was split off into its own article: First flying machine. The dispute makes great reading, and can be better handled as its own entry. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 21:58, 21 January 2006 (UTC) What do you think?
Aleksandar Susnjar mentions the grammatical use of first person in the current article about Marconi. This was done for a good reason. In my comments in the section “Who invented radio?”, I stated that Tesla’s transmitter could inject a large alternating current into the earth from the ground terminal, and: “Whether this earth current would be a better medium for long distance wireless communications than radio waves from a conventional radio transmitter of comparable power and frequency is anyone’s guess. I have never seen a theoretical analysis of this question.” Although there is a large amount of technical literature about the propagation of radio waves, including, especially at low frequencies, the effects of the induced earth currents that accompany them (e.g., the tilt of the wave front), I have never seen an analysis that specifically addresses the propagation through the earth of the current from the ground terminal, either in the context of Tesla’s system or that of a conventional low frequency radio transmitter with a vertical antenna plus ground. I doubt if such an analysis exists, but since there is no way to be sure, I simply stated that I have never seen one. Regarding Mr. Susnjar’s other complaints, which may or may not have been directed at my commentary, the distinction between wireless transmission via radio waves, and via electrical conduction through the earth or upper atmosphere, is often lost on Tesla biographers. The latter is the mechanism which Tesla intended to utilize, and the former is the one that his contemporaries developed, and which became the basis of radio today. The following excerpt from the description of Tesla’s American patent number 649,621, dated May 15, 1900 emphasizes the distinction between the two approaches to wireless communication: “It is to be noted that the phenomenon here involved in the transmission of electrical energy is one of true conduction and is not to be confounded with the phenomena of electrical radiation which have heretofore been observed and which from the very nature and mode of propagation would render practically impossible the transmission of any appreciable amount of energy to such distances as are of practical importance.” He continues: “What I now claim as my invention is - 1. The combination with a transmitting coil or conductor connected to the ground and to an elevated terminal respectively, and means for producing therein electrical currents or oscillations, of a receiving coil or conductor similarly connected to ground and to an elevated terminal, at a distance from the transmitting-coil and adapted to be excited by currents caused to be propagated from the same by conduction through the intervening natural medium, a secondary conductor in inductive relation to the receiving-conductor and devices for utilizing the current in the circuit of said secondary conductor, as set forth.” (This long sentence is more easily understood in conjunction with the diagram accompanying the patent, which shows the transmitter basically as a generator that is transformer-coupled to the elevated conductor and ground, and the receiver consisting basically of a similar elevated conductor plus ground, transformer-coupled to a load. The patent description later specifies that the transmitter and receiver are tuned to the same frequency, and that the wires in the secondary coil of the transformer in the transmitter, and the primary coil of the transformer in the receiver are one-quarter wavelength long, producing a standing wave with a voltage maximum at the elevated conductor. If one replaces the elevated conductors, which basically serve as “self-capacitances”, by antennas designed to radiate and receive radio waves, and replaces the receiver load by a radio detector, the diagram would describe a basic low frequency radio system of that era. This similarity probably has added to the confusion between Tesla’s system and conventional radio.) The patent description continues with further details of the setup, but the excerpt above suffices to show that Tesla was focusing on electrical conduction, in particular through the earth, rather than radiation of radio waves, which he states elsewhere are a waste of energy in a wireless system. (See the reference to Leland Anderson in the main article.) In my opinion, this choice of a different direction from his contemporaries, plus his failure to complete his worldwide wireless station on Long Island, New York in the early 1900’s, relegated his work to a historical dead end. Also, In my opinion, the question of whether his approach had or still has potential can best be settled by a theoretical analysis of the propagation of alternating currents through the earth from a ground terminal. - Contributed by Henry Bradford. 142.177.137.222 22:49, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
The part where it says(paraphrasing) "Many engineers agree that this wouldn't have been possible then, and that it is even impossible now with modern technology and equipment." However, a few sentences later it says that he was sending and recieving transatlantic messages by 1903. Holy Contradiction Batman! uberblue 18:59, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Needs editing?The "Wireless sound transmission" section is in drastic need of editing. After the first two sentences it talks about Marconi's fascist involvement, and contains poor grammar, capitalization, and questionable facts and point of view in the sentences "He has other allegations too against him.The works that he submitted as his own are ditto copies of the renowned but unfortunate scientist from India Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose. He prior to marconi first demonstrated the world how radio waves can be used to pass on sound and first used semiconductor junction for it." [edit] Marconi's British patentsA couple of sources [3] and [4], list this patent information: British patent No. 7777, "Improvements in apparatus for wireless telegraphy", patented 1900 as his syntonic tuning patent. But the patent number is lower than his British patent No.12039 filed June 2, 1896, issued in March, 1897. Can someone resolve this apparent discrepancy? --Blainster 21:10, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
The patent process takes time to award it. When was it filed? 134.193.168.249 20:57, 1 June 2006 (UTC) [edit] RemovedRM: "Popov gave the first public demonstration of the radio as a tool, in 1895". Tesla public lecture was before. 134.193.168.249 20:57, 1 June 2006 (UTC) [edit] Irish motherIf his mother was born in Ireland, he should be described as an "Italian-Irish inventor." His British connections were crucial to his getting contact with Post Office authorities and the military to conduct tests and development of his early crude devices, and to the launching of his company. His grandfather was the distiller Andrew Jameson of County Wessex, Scotland (who had migrated from Scotland to Ireland.) Aitkin says (p 210) "There were brief visits to England- young Guglielmo even attended Rugby for a brief time - and some reconciliation was reached with her parents." When the Italian government would not buy his invention, therefore, it was natural for Marconi to go with his mother to the UK to try and find support. Aitkin says (p220) "In Britain there were important assets of family membership that would not have been available in Paris, Berlin, or New York." The Jameson and Haig distiller relatives were Scottish-Irish and had money to invest in the Marconi company. Marconi used his British family connections to get hearings from government and military leaders which might not have happened elsewhere. His British cousin Jameson Davis arranged his introduction to Preece of the British Post Office, and later proposed the private company Wireless Telegraph and Signal Company in July 1897, which snatched the patent rights away from the British government. His British relatives put up the capital for the company. No money came from Italian relatives. (Aitkin p 224).Edison 15:30, 23 June 2006 (UTC) But him remains Italian: simply he was born in Italy. Leonardo da Vinci work and died in France, but nobody can think he is French... --151.47.69.188 14:37, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
Marconi was also a convinced Italian fascist, he served in the Italian military, a senator during the regime and else. Given the nationalistic stance of fascism and Marconi's adherence to it it is practically doubtless to state that he saw himself essentially as an Italian, at most he used his Irish-British connections for his purposes and nothing more. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.85.104.109 (talk) 22:02, 24 April 2008 (UTC) [edit] Stopping CarsI've read somewhere that Marconi made an apparatus that could stop car engines remotely. And that he took Mussolini for a ride demonstrating the invention on passing cars. Supposedly the invention is lost and no one knows how he did it. Is this just a myth or is it fact? If it's fact I think it deserves a mention. 80.202.240.192 14:50, 16 July 2006 (UTC) Be careful you aren't plaguarizing Eric Barnouw's Tower in Babel. [edit] Unreferenced Good ArticleThis article is listed for consideration and, with luck, work by the Wikipedia:WikiProject Unreferenced GA. Badbilltucker 16:19, 3 October 2006 (UTC) Nobody has metioned that Marconi lost his right eye in 1912 in a car accident. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.225.38.243 (talk) 16:01, 17 January 2009 (UTC) [edit] Cultural depictions of Guglielmo MarconiI've started an approach that may apply to Wikipedia's Core Biography articles: creating a branching list page based on in popular culture information. I started that last year while I raised Joan of Arc to featured article when I created Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc, which has become a featured list. Recently I also created Cultural depictions of Alexander the Great out of material that had been deleted from the biography article. Since cultural references sometimes get deleted without discussion, I'd like to suggest this approach as a model for the editors here. Regards, Durova 19:01, 17 October 2006 (UTC) [edit] DisputedMarconi took the designs of others and claimed them for himself. Only later did he grudgingly admitted to some of his theft. 204.56.7.1 22:38, 5 February 2007 (UTC) No mention of Tesla's lectures distributed in Eroupe. 204.56.7.1 22:40, 5 February 2007 (UTC) [edit] Earth to act as a waveguide resonator for the surface wave signal??In terms of long-distance propagation of radio waves, this is not true. It was erroneously thought at the time that Marconi would have given this speech that the radio waves travelled long distances via a surface wave (the Zenneck surface wave, having been described by both Zenneck and Sommerfeld in 1907 and 1909). While this surface wave does exist, it is evanescent and dies out before propagating a great distance. It was not until 1926 when Briet and Tuve showed experimentally that the propagation was due to reflections off of the ionosphere that the true nature of long distance propagation became widely accepted. So Marconi may have made this statement and for his initial tests on his family estate the surface wave could have been the propagation mechanism. However, one of Marconi's great successes was proving the feasibility of long range radio broadcasts and this statement seems to give the reader the wrong idea on how these long distance propagations actually work. So I think this statement probably should be reworded for better clarity. Take a look at Collin's paper in the IEEE Antennas Propag. Mag. "Hertzian Dipole Radiating Over a Lossy Earth or Sea: ..." in vol 46, no. 2 of April 2004.Born2bwire 23:14, 13 April 2007 (UTC) That is only true for higher frequencies than Marconi was using. At the frequencies that Marconi was using (especially early on), the Zenneck surface wave applies. J. D. Redding 01:59, 28 April 2007 (UTC) Italic text [edit] Headline textthis was very helpful for my social studies homework. it also helpe me on my project. thank you so much.--66.153.236.138 02:24, 18 April 2007 (UTC) annomaus [edit] Some scientists?I think this is alluding to Tesla ...
Indeed Tesla (there is a image about this) understood that the low power hertzian transverse UHF did travel at straight lines ... but the frequencies that Marconi was using was not the HF or UHF that Hertz experimented with. (note: the HF bounce off the ionosphere was not investigated later ... after Marconi's work ... the Alexanderson alternator (state of the art at the time; time and place is important) could not produce such frequencies to bounce them off the ionosphere ... ) Maybe some work on this line is needed. J. D. Redding 02:30, 28 April 2007 (UTC) (ps., also power levels of transmission increased more later on ... ) [edit] Brean Down to Flatholm"Bristol Channel from Lavernock Point, South Wales to Brean Down" I am making an edit to this statement, as it is untrue. Marconi broadcast the first radio signal over water from Lavernock Point to Flat holm Island and NOT Brean Down. --Niall9 16:08, 11 May 2007 (UTC) [edit] PopovI can find this name only once in the whole article. It's interesting, there's nowhere written who really invented those things, and whom Marconi has stolen his great inventions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.223.104.34 (talk) 15:53, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
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