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Please maintain high quality standards; if you are an established editor your last version in the article history may be used so please don't leave the article with unresolved issues, and make an extra effort to include free images, because non-free images cannot be used on the DVDs. | | [edit] Bush's residence during the summer in Maine Please mention that during the summer, George H. W. Bush stays at the Bush Compound in Maine during the summer, with his wife Barbara Bush. Add that to his page article. Thank you. [edit] Bush as the CIA director This page says that Bush was the director of the CIA for 355 days from january 20, 1976-January 30, 1977. However, that would be 356 days. Furthermore 1976 was a leap year, so it would actually be 357 days. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.238.250.139 (talk) 04:01, 5 May 2009 (UTC) - Done. Thanks for the heads up! Happyme22 (talk) 04:35, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
I find it odd that there is no mention of his well-documented CIA connections or his relationship with the House of Saud. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.173.140.246 (talk) 11:48, 2 August 2009 (UTC) [edit] * After Dick Thornburgh, Please Fix This was brought up earlier but not addressed yet. In the cabinet section, Dick Thornburgh has a * next to his name, but at the bottom of the box, no explanation is given as to why. I surmised that possibly it is because he was a holdover from the Reagan Administration. But if that's the case, Brady would need one too, since he was also a Reagan Cabinet member retained by Bush. Regardless, the box should still at the bottom tell the reader that's the case. So two options really. Can someone with the powers to do so either delete the *, or make an explanation for the *, and also add a * next to Secretary Brady too? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.244.113.226 (talk) 13:43, 5 May 2009 (UTC) [edit] George Bush sons Please add Jeb Bush to his childrens list. He is not on the list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.234.149.250 (talk) 02:57, 25 July 2009 (UTC) - His name is included in the "Marriage and college years" section. Happyme22 (talk) 17:52, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
[edit] George Bush Jumping off the Plane I cannot find the area where he jumps off the plane and decides to do it again when he's 90. I believe there is a source in Fox 5 News. Jeremjay24 (talk) 20:13, 4 August 2009 (UTC) In the subject line under "Recent Activities" regarding Bush's visit to the George H.W. Bush, the line: "In an amazing turn of events, the Associated Press completely missed the story" is blatant editorializing. The major news services do not assign reporters to monitor the day-to-day activities of ex-presidents. This becomes more true as the term of the ex-POTUS recedes in time. As a rule, they will only be aware of appearances by the ex-presidents if an announcement is made in advance by either the ex-POTUS or the organization hosting the visit (in this case, the U.S. Navy). The visit of an ex-president, out of office 16 years, to a naval vessel not currently involved in active operations, is not exactly huge news. At best it would be a minor feature story. The fact it was not picked up by the AP would hardly qualify as "amazing." JStarStar (talk) 17:34, 13 August 2009 (UTC) [edit] Recent Activities The last sentence in the recent activities section which says, "in an amazing turn of events, the Associated Press completely missed the story" is editorial and untrue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eastcoastj (talk • contribs) 20:23, 27 August 2009 (UTC) [edit] Ted Kennedy's Funeral I'm not sure why exactly, but making a minor edit pointing out that George Bush was absent at Ted Kennedy's funeral seems to have started an edit war. I had no idea such a minor comment would be offensive to people, particularly since I have sources to back it up and have made the proper citations. In keeping with Wiki guidelines, lets stop this edit war, and discuss whatever disagreements you may have with this edit Rain City Blues (talk) 14:49, 30 August 2009 (UTC) - Rain City Blues, you're the one who's edit warring, I'm afraid. You've been reverted by three different editors and have reinstated the edit yourself three times in the last 24 hours. The reason the text is being removed is not because it's 'offensive' but because it's not notable or relevant to this article. Discussion is a good idea, but please remember the BRD cycle: with few exceptions, if a change is disputed it should stay out of the article until the editors involved come to an agreement on the talk page. Why do you feel this one event is important enough in the subject's life that it requires mention in his article? Do you feel the decision not to attend tells us something about the subject? -- Vary (Talk) 15:38, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
- Before you start throwing accusations and warnings at me, lets review the edit itself-making ad hominem attacks isn't going to strengthen your argument, it will merely make it look like you are abusing your power as an admin.
- Now, the edit itself is relevant-this is probably the single most talked about event int he news as of late. His absence is notable, since he is the only living ex-president who did not attend. That's certainly more notable than his dedicating an aircracft carrier.
- I intend to revert this edit, in hopes of attracting the attention of an admin that is willing to look at the issue itself, and not throw accusations around quite so liberally. Perhaps, if you achieve a level of civility where you can do this, we can have a rational discussion on the topic and resolve the matter peacefully. Rain City Blues (talk) 15:51, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
- I've made no personal attacks, Rain City Blues. You accused three (now four) different editors of edit warring for each making a single revert, and yet you call foul when I point out that by reverting three (again, now four) times in the last 13 hours you are edit warring?
- Ted Kennedy's funeral is huge news at the moment, yes. But Bush's non-attendance at the funereal is not. Therefore, it's a minor event and not notable enough to the subject's life to merit inclusion in this article. -- Vary (Talk) 16:32, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
- RainCityBlues, as I explained to you at my talk page after you personally attacked me for reverting you[1], please don't try to make this into a controversy or into a negative. If Bush had skipped out on the funeral and released a statement saying "I didn't like Kennedy so I'm not going" and it was all over the news media, then perhaps it would deserve a mention. But that wasn't the case at all; he and Mrs. Bush decided not to go because, as I have explained to you before, they decided that the Bush family would be well represented by their son, former President George W. Bush.[2] That's it. End of story. There is no controversy, no intense media coverage on why George H. W. Bush didn't go to the funeral. It's not notable. Happyme22 (talk) 18:24, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is not the news- this doesn't seem like something that will still be an important thing to say about George H.W. Bush a hundred years from now, or fifty, or even one. But if significant sources are still discussing this a year from now, it might be worth reconsidering. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 18:58, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
- Yes, however we shouldn't judge based on what may occur in the future (WP:CRYSTAL). We should judge based on what is happening now and the overall relevancy to the subject of the article. Right now, I don't see anything in the news. There were a few stories, all of which presented the Bush family statement and didn't attempt to turn this into something that it is not. FisherQueen, you are correct that this is not something very important to George H. W. Bush's life and career. Happyme22 (talk) 19:03, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
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- If that is true, then delete this portion "On January 10, 2009, Bush and his son were both present at the commissioning of the USS George H. W. Bush (CVN-77), the tenth and last Nimitz class supercarrier of the United States Navy.[81][82] President Bush paid a visit to the carrier again on May 26, 2009.[83]" because in 50 years, nobody is going to care that he visited an aircraft carrier
Unless of course you really are pursuing a personal agenda. Rain City Blues (talk) 23:58, 10 September 2009 (UTC) - The air craft carrier is mentioned because it's named after him. That's why it's relevant to this article. I'm sorry, Rain City Blues, but consensus is against you on this issue. If you can find some more sources asserting that it was important that Bush didn't attend the funereal, rather than noting the fact, then the matter might be worth revisiting, but the wild accusations of bias are not helping your case. -- Vary (Talk) 00:18, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
- Rain City Blues himself made the case against including this: "Now, the edit itself is relevant-this is probably the single most talked about event int he news as of late." "Ted kennedy's funeral has been the most prominent feature in all the major news sources for the past 3 days. I'"d say that makes it pretty damn notable, don't you?" Emphasis added in both cases. These two comments by RCB are the best evidence that the item he wishes to add is not notable. WP is not a newspaper. The Kennedy funeral is all over the newspapers now, but a month from now it will be forgotten. It will remain a notable event in Kennedy's own biography, but not in those of anybody who attended, let alone those who didn't. -- Zsero (talk) 22:37, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
[edit] 'Home State' What determines someone's home state? In the 1988 election article, Bush's home state is given as Texas, but he was born in Mass. Who decides what his home state is? Jandrews23jandrews23 (talk) 21:26, 30 August 2009 (UTC) - In my opinion, "home" is something that is defined by the subject- if he says that his 'home state' is Texas, then it is. Especially since he's certainly connected himself with the state for long enough to think of it as 'home.' Birth state, of course, is a different thing. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 21:31, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Home state is usually defined as the state you're elected from, which is not always the state you're born in. Reagan is from California, not from Illinois, Bush is from Texas, not from Massachusetts, for example.205.244.113.226 (talk) 17:40, 15 September 2009 (UTC) [edit] Dukakis Debate I suggest adding the adjective "dispassionate" to describe the Dukakis response of "no" to Bernard Shaw's question. It was the tone of the response that affected voters since his opposition to the death penalty was already well-known. L3kn (talk) 00:16, 18 September 2009 (UTC) [edit] Public image Here are my thoughts before I make any more changes: George Bush was widely seen as a "pragmatic caretaker" president who lacked a greater vision in shaping the new world, admitting he had a problem with "the vision thing". "He does not say why he wants to be there," wrote columnist George Will. I would like to reinsert this wholesale for the following reasons: - It's all a part of the same sentence in the source "Bush may have helped usher the Cold War to an end, but he was largely viewed as a pragmatic caretaker president – a safe pair of hands – and he ultimately lacked the vision required to build a new world order in place of the old."[3]. We've essentially split a sentence, which changes the context, and IMO creates a POV.
- The fact that this was an attribute acknowledged by Bush himself IMO means this was a truth which spanned both sides of the political see-saw.
- "The vision thing" is apparently a notable phrase in and of itself as coined by Bush.
- I have more sources [4] that use that same quote and address that same issue about the seeming lack of vision.
- I think a quote like that puts Bush in a rare moment of candor, which gives a good sense of who he is. It also carries the information tacitly that he was a man who could accept his flaws.
Other points: "some felt" is weasely, and: (a) is always implied when talking about public image, and (b) is addressed by the word "seeming", and (c) is contrary to the sources which say "Bush's image shifted from ...", not "some thought his image shifted from...". "He had told us a recession wouldn't happen, and now that it was here, all he had to say was that it would end soon."[5] Being sourced, I'd like to include this, as it was a part of his ousting based on economic troubles.--Louiedog (talk) 16:04, 2 October 2009 (UTC) - Edit': apparently the quote was so notable that it became, at least once, a metonym for United States foreign policy.--Louiedog (talk) 16:09, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
- [6] Another source commenting on inability to frame ideas into compelling greater picture.--Louiedog (talk) 16:51, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
- [http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,963342-2,00.html Time article saying basically the same thing. Actually, this became so interesting to me, I've started an article, which you may want to comment on due to its proximity.--Louiedog (talk) 17:00, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
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- I have a problem with how your version is written, as it implies subtly that people thought Bush didn't know what the hell was going on and didn't have a clue about anything, highlighted by the stressing of "widely seen". I doubt that he was "widely seen" as a caretaker, do-nothing president. "Shaping the new world" -- what does that mean? Bush was not given a new world and told to shape it.... In regards to George Will's quote, what is Will referring to with the word "there"? If you can answer those questions, we'll take the next steps and we can perhaps work something out.
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- In regards to the other points you raised: "some felt" is the truth. With public perception, some are going to feel one way, and some are inevitably going to feel a different way. We have no right to generalize those feelings into one belief, thus take one side. In other words, I guarantee you that not everyone felt that he went from a global hero to a politician befuddled by economic matters, and by eliminating "some felt," we are thus only showing one side's argument and ignoring the argument of the other side, violating WP:NPOV.
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- Regarding the quote about the economy: I don't think it is necessary. The article establishes that Bush was not reelected largely due to his reneging on "Read my lips: no new taxes" and the economic troubles. I just don't see the need to repeat this again. Happyme22 (talk) 01:06, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
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- There's a world of difference between having the appearance of not knowing what's going on and actually not knowing. The point of the public image section is to discuss public perception, as documented by the ample sources, regardless of whether that perception has any grounding. The incident with the supermarket scanner is a classic example of how what actually happened wasn't nearly as relevant as what was popularly perceived to have happened. The sources say "widely seen", even if you personally doubt what they say; that makes "widely seen" verifiable and your personal disbelief, not. Remember: verifiability, not truth
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- The bit about not saying why he wants to be there was quoted in this context, here and here. The quote and context are: Bush also suffered from his lack of what he called "the vision thing," a clarity of ideas and principles that could shape public opinion and influence Congress. "He does not say why he wants to be there," complained columnist George Will, "so the public does not know why it should care if he gets his way." and This ultimate bureaucrat had a problem, however -- one that dogged him throughout the campaign and into his presidency. Conservative columnist George Will bluntly described Bush's limitation in those days: "He does not say why he wants to be there, so the public does not know why it should care if he gets his way."
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- It's pretty clear that "there" is the presidency. Of course, we don't even have to interpret what it means; we can just reproduce it in the same context it was quoted and let the reader decide. This is what we have source support for.
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- The truth is we'll never know if his failure to be reelected was "read my lips", the economy, or, as some suggest, that "he personified a continuation of the previous policies." Regardless, this is not what the section is about. "Read my lips" would only be relevant to the public image section, if it became the basis for a perceived quality of Bush, if it meant that Bush's image became one of dishonesty, and we don't have sources to support that. Sources do support, repeatedly and consistently, the "lack of vision" problem. And we've cut content out of a source mid-sentence in our failure to include the "lack of vision", which is a flagrant lack of context.
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- And just to nail home this "some felt" point, take a look at a President that has a non-trivial "public image" section, like W. Bush. for why "some felt" is simply not how it's done.
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- (1) In the "Support among conservatives" section, it says "This support waned, however, due mostly...", not "This support waned, however, from some due mostly...".
- (2) Raised in West Texas, Bush's accent, vacations on his Texas ranch, and penchant for country metaphors contribute to his folksy, American cowboy image. "I think people look at him and think John Wayne." not "...folksy, American cowboy image for some. "I think some people look at him and think John Wayne."
- (3) Bush's intellectual capacities have been satirized by the media[16] and other politicians[17] leading to speculation about his IQ, not Bush's intellectual capacities have been satirized by the media[16] and other politicians[17] leading to speculation about his IQ from some.
- See also: Public_image_of_Bill_Clinton#Public_image, Warren_G._Harding#Speaking_style, Ronald_Reagan#Cultural_and_political_image for the style and content of "public image" sections.
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- So, overall, we must include anything that is reliably sourced, regardless of whether we personally believe it. There is ample support for Bush being seen as ineffectual on the economy for his being seen as having a lack of central and unifying theme in his priorities.--Louiedog (talk) 18:08, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
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