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[edit] Number of French SpeakersIt just doesn't add up about 65 million (native), what are you counting as native? The Congo alone has more than 60 million french speakers! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.4.153.30 (talk) 09:24, 24 October 2009 (UTC) [edit] INCONSISTENCYTotal speakers 175 million in total (2005 estimate of the Haut Conseil de la Francophonie)[1] "spoken around the world by around 100 million people as a first language, by 190 million as a second language, and by about another 200 million people as an acquired foreign language, with significant speakers in 54 countries." One says 175 million, the other +- 490 million. So what do we do about this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.237.159.61 (talk) 05:21, 20 June 2009 (UTC) [edit] Online course resourcesWhy do we support so big and not good resources like About.com as learning the French language ? We should list the popular sites and good resources even if they are not modern, the quality in the content should matter at most. For example the first language course on internet French Language Course is still very popular by Google, that was only one example of a site with no profit interest with popularity and age, there are probably plenty more that we should list here on the article page. Roxpace (talk) 15:30, 14 July 2008 (UTC) I too would like to add Online French Help to the resources. It's quality and very useful. --Adjwilli (talk) 23:52, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
[edit] My French Language MapYou may have noticed my new French Language map. See how TOTALLY INACCURATE it is when you follow a strict "country-by-country" basis? This how I have always criticised the English Language map. I believe the English Language map should be changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alphador (talk • contribs) 12:01, 9 February 2008 (UTC) I changed it back since it was adopted without consensus. And I agree, it was inaccurate. Aaker (talk) 22:59, 11 February 2008 (UTC)  Change the English map as well. Otherwise I change French map back.Alphador (talk) 10:44, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] French in LouisianaAfter looking into the matter and recieving confermation emails from both a member of the Council for the Development of French in Louisiana and from the current Secretary of state for the Great State of Louisiana I can say with some certainty that the Council for the Development of French in Louisiana does indeed have full authority to make any and all decisions about what is to be considered "correct" French in Louisiana. There are several spelling changes as well as a large number of English words that have the "official" stamp of the agency as being correct IN LOUISIANA. I was then refered to Louisiana revised statute RS 25:651 and informed that this Law passed in Louisiana should be the FINAL word on any discussion on the matter and as such should definatly be included as a regulator of the Language. However, I was also informed that as the several forms of French as it exist in Louisiana diverge from what others outside our state would call "Bon Francais" then the question must be asked as to whether or not the French that exist in Louisiana counts as still being French enough to be included in this particular article or if a new article specific to Louisiana French listing the council as the regulator should be created. I can tell you that as a native Louisiana French speaker that I can usually but not always understand other French speakers and when I speak it really is just a matter of tense and vocab adjustment to make make myself understood. I feel that it should be here on this article but I will await reply before adding the agency again.--Billiot 13:50, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
§651. Council authorized; membership; powers The governor is hereby authorized to establish the Council for the Development of French in Louisiana, said agency to consist of no more than fifty members and including a chairman appointed by the governor from names recommended to him by legislators. Said council is empowered to do any and all things necessary to accomplish the development, utilization and preservation of the French language as found in the state of Louisiana for the cultural, economic and tourist benefit of the state. Acts 1968, No. 409, §1. Amended by Acts 1968, Ex.Sess., No. 22, §1. The verbatum of the text given above can be fact checked by going to http://www.legis.state.la.us/ or by going to any Law Library that carries Louisiana Law and referencing the number. The address http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=84519 will take you directly to the place in the statute that is relevant.--Billiot 08:42, 5 April 2007 (UTC) According to the DOCOFIL- The member institutions are: Centenary College, Delgado Community College , Dillard University, Grambling State, Louisiana State University at Alexandria, Louisiana State University at Baton Rouge , Louisiana State University at Eunice , Louisiana State University, Shreveport , Louisiana Tech, Loyola University , McNeese State University, Nicholls State University , Northwestern State University, Our Lady of Holy Cross College, Southeastern Louisiana University, Southern University, Southern University at New Orleans, Tulane University, University of Louisiana at Lafayette, University of Louisiana at Monroe, University of New Orleans, and Xavier University. These institutions recieve documentation about French as it exist in Louisiana from the agency and are supposed to use them for the teaching of French. Of course I have no way of knowing at this time how closely it is followed. These institutions for a group that is supposed to advise one another and set up programs for teaching Louisiana French. One Document that is avaliable on the web site of the Council is the Stratagy Plan. In that document they talk about several publications but do not list names. The Stratagy Plan explicitly states that the Council considers itself in charge of not only Cajun and Creole French in Louisiana but any other type of French in Louisiana as well. On a side note I did find in a Louisiana law that the official word for the "butter bean" in Louisiana is "feve platte". The law dealt with agriculture and taxation. It was originally passed before the creation of the CODOFIL but I did a search on the word and found it listed on the web sites of several of the "member institutions". Not sure how all of that is worked out but since all laws in Louisiana were upgraded and redone after we changed our constitution in 1972 I can only assume that if this word was in foul that some one would have discovered it. --Billiot 09:07, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
Yes I understand the confusion. That is why I myself backed off when you first sent a note to me as I felt I had to make sure. Indeed, making decisions and publishing dictionaries is not their main goal, far from it in fact. Their main goal and the one they spend the most time doing is trying to promote French by organizing French education and creating University environments so that Francophones can come to Louisiana to study. However, even though it is a small thing that they do they have been granted the authority by the Louisiana state legislature to make whatever decisions about what is "correct" French as well as perform any other actions in regartds to French as stated in the Statute. Personally I wish myself to get more information on the agancy and so I have requested it but as to the issue of regulation, though they don't do much, they can if they need to and I think that should be enough.--Billiot 13:33, 5 April 2007 (UTC) One minor thing that I am waiting to get clarefication on is what the official name is. The emails I have recieved show the name in French but the statute, which has no French equivalent unlike most of our laws, only shows an English name. Which do you think I should list?--Billiot 13:42, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
I reworked the paragraph on French in Louisiana to read a little bit better and more accurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrboire (talk • contribs) 06:23, 22 March 2009 (UTC) [edit] Canadian French sound examples (OGG)This article is not correct! The guy who did the OGG voices for the french canadian accent was not correct, most of the OGG should be redone. It sounds really bad, sometimes he simply forgot a syllab!! Horrible! Example: He says BON JOURNEE instead of BONNE JOURNEE. Horrible! It has to be rebuild but I don't know how. I'm sure this guy is not a native french canadian, to me his voice sounds like a guy from asia or an arabian country. I'm sorry to say that but how could he make the samples correctly with the right accent if he's not born here.. If he was a good immitator I wouldn't complain, but he's not. I don't have a mic at home right now. I'm a native french canadian from Québec. 207.253.111.161 03:33, 15 March 2007 (UTC)Fred
Yes I could, now I found my old mic and I think I'll do that.. I only need to understand how to make an ogg.. To me the samples are not just bad, they are worse than if they were replaced by the ones in French from France, because the guy miss some syllabs and cut some words. Also to me he sounds closer to the standard french. I can't believe it, he just not spelled the words completely, just cutting them in half.
This "Canadian" speaker is clearly not a French mothertongue speaker. His accent and intonation are not at all "Canadian". He is an anglophone trying to speak French and making mistakes in the process. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.120.88.48 (talk) Not trying to diss anyone, but imho as a native Quebec French speaker his "bonne nuit" sounded like [põnɥi], with devoicing of the first plosive. I'd place his accent to somewhere where the language doesn't distinguish voice, at least in plosives. Chinese is a good example of a language who doesn't distinguish voice. Or maybe it's just the guy's mic. Who knows? Though at second glance, it does seems to be a French Canadian accent since I can hear common features...however it's certainly not one I've heard before. Valkari 03:16, 8 May 2007 (UTC) Sorry for not responding to this sooner. French is my second language. I think most of the problems with the recordings (dropped syllables come to mind as I'm normally very precise) were caused by the low quality microphone I was using. I had actually placed them there as placeholders, with the intent that someone else would come along and replace them with something better. I don't like them much either, so feel free to upload superior recordings. Azio 17:51, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Phonetics Corrections: ɔ or oIn the Samples section, there is a sample for "Au revoir" where "Au" is transcribed "ɔ". I think this should be transcribed "o" as in the "Au secours" sample. I believe the "ɔ" is correctly used in the "Bonne journee" and "Bonne nuit" samples. Also I noticed that "comment" is transcribed [kɔmɑ̃] but the way I pronounce it sounds like [kɑ̃mɑ̃]. But even though I'm a native french speaker, I would not bet that it is the proper pronunciation, and actually think some people would pronounce as [komɑ̃]. I also noticed that all the words thats starts as /kɔmɑ̃/ (Commande, commencer, commentaire...), I pronounce then as /kɑ̃mɑ̃- (like if the second ɑ̃ leaks to the first sound) but for words starting as /kɔme/ (comedie, commemorer) or /kɔmɛ/ (commettre, commerce) I would probably not understand the word if /ɑ̃/ was substitued to /ɔ/
[edit] nasal tremaA question of pronunciation I've never been able to find the answer to: How do you pronounce nasalized vowels with diaresis? E.g., Citroën. Saint-Saëns, of course,
[edit] What do WE sound like to the French?.I've often wondered what we foreigners sound like to native French-speakers, and how they can tell 'who' is mangling their language :-). I once got a French friend to speak French to me in a 'joke' English accent, and it came out as a dull, lazy flat monotone with no modulation, as though it was being read from a page. He then repeated the exercise in a joke German accent, which was loud, commanding, rude and funny once the sound of caterpillar tracks had subsided and I had wiped all the spit off myself. Perhaps a native French speaker could entertain us with how a few other nationalities destroy French?.160.84.253.241 09:15, 22 February 2006 (UTC) To me (I am French man), French as it's spoken with an English or an American accent sounds melodic and cute. Conversely, when an American girl speaks her tongue, it sounds twangy, too high-pitched, and quickly irritating to me. Bratta75 09:24, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm terribly sorry that you feel that way. Perhaps you have heard what we call the "valley girl" voice. That is when there is an infliction in the voice at the end of every statement or word as if asking a question. Please note that not all Americans speak that way.
What exactly does this have to do with anything?CharlesMartel 01:12, 30 November 2006 (UTC)CharlesMartel Ummm, it's fun and interesting. Isn't that a good enough reason? KiwiBiggles 23:20, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Canadian French speakersHow do native speakers of French from Canada sound to native speakers of French from France? I've heard that French-Canadians speaking French in France may be corrected by native French speakers there. (In other words, how do French speakers think Céline Dion sounds?)4.243.206.29 22:49, 27 December 2006 (UTC) To answer your question: 1. celine dion does not use her "strong" accent when performing on scene. She just speak a rather standard french (the words are spelled correctly) with a really small french canadian sounding.. And when singing a French song she soften her voice because French from europe cannot support a high pitched voice. French canadians can, but sometimes they can find that irritating too.. but less than europeans. Oh yeah, this is the main reason why she does not make bilangual CDs. 2. the first thing french people need to do when listening to us for the first time is taking a coffee. They need to concentrate because we speak a bit faster than them, or we just miss some few words here and there because the french language use sometimes too much words like "le, la, les" (articles) between verbs or nouns and we simply cut them or shrink them like : sur la becomes "suaa" and sur le becomes "sul". Also we have our own vocabulary, a lot of local words and good old french words that the french themselves do not use today!! 207.253.111.161 03:52, 15 March 2007 (UTC) Fred I had a prof who once told me his theory on the difference between Quebec and France French: the cold. He noted that the more southern a language (from a northen hemisphere perspective), the more apt a speaker was to open his mouth broadly and be more nasal in pronunciation. While this could only explain things partially, it did seem to make sense when looking at different languages and different dialects. Compare the northerly Germanic languages with the more southern Latin languages. Take the English of the deep South and compare it to New England or the upper Mid-west, and you will notice a somewhat similar phenomena. Likewise, if you take Parisian French and compare it to that of the Côte d'Azur...well, try it on for size. So, wanna speak Canadian French...limit the nasality and try to open your mouth less (remember...you're sitting out in three feet of snow at -40F... ;-)) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.56.160.208 (talk) 07:34, 31 August 2007 (UTC) [edit] (no title)The French are always exaggerating the number of speakers of their language. Looked at the government homepages of Laos, Vietnam, and Mauritius, listed as being francophone. Nothing in French. I live in Brussels and work for the EU where French is losing ground, to English of course. I would treat every claim about the French language with a large pinch of salt. Louisiana French speaking? Yeah right. Why not colour Paris imperial red as the number of anglophones there is statistically quite high. Dream on, froggies!
I would add to the main page: the number of institutions where French is formally an official language is largely thanks to the obstinate lobbying efforts of the French, and in no way indicates that it is common use by non natives within those bodies. The translation and interpretation costs to these organisations so that the French can indulge in their nationalistic vanity is considerable. In reality, on a daily basis, French is spoken much less in these institutions than it seems on paper. The number of countries where French is officially spoken - according to a highly biased source, La Francophonie - might seem impressive, but bear in mind that these countries either are in Africa or have small populations; either way, with the exception of France, Quebec and Belgium they are all economically and culturally utterly insignificant. One guide to France's importance would be to look at books and scientific papers written in French, and citations to French science papers. The number is low. A ambitious martian wishing to embark on any career who came to planet Earth would be ill-advised to learn French, since he would cut himself off from the dialogue of the elite in business, science and the arts conducted between Asia, Europe and North America, and most of Africa and the Middle East. A better second language - after English of course - would be Spanish or Chinese, all of which have a far greater number of native speakers and are growing in importance. French on the other hand, is unquestionably in decline: in its last international bastion, the EU, it has been supplanted by English. It is a very nice-sounding language of course, and gives insight to a closed culture that doesn't engage with and is therefore ignored by the rest of the world - that of France. But its usefulness is strictly tertiary and is therefore best learnt at leisure. cheers PM (unsigned comment by 86.142.177.211 (talk) on August 12, 2006)
Do you need to use such abrasive language to prove a point I fail to see? 24.203.155.119 04:55, 19 August 2006 (UTC) The French are always exaggerating the number of speakers of their language. They are not alone with that, just look at Chinese, Russian, German, Vietnamese or whatever. Almost everyone wants to make their language look bigger than it really is. French does remain an important language in Africa though. Aaker 13:06, 7 October 2006 (UTC) The usual boozy Francophobe nonsense. Even taken by numbers and economic importance, the future of French is looking pretty good. As a result of population growth, France's importance in the EU is likely to become even greater while French is spreading in Africa through education. And those who were insisting not long ago that France must reform its economy along Anglo-American lines are a lot quieter now. Of course, there is much more to language than numbers and wealth - the knowledge of languages with small numbers of speakers is both interesting and culturally important. But, to argue with 86.142.177.211, France is very far from being one of those. Incidentally, I am neither French nor from one of the major Anglophone countries and I find French culture to be more open to and interested in the world than those of countries in which one often finds the view that those who don't speak English don't exist 41.241.18.191 (talk) 23:00, 9 February 2009 (UTC) [edit] ŒnologiePlease, take a look on those texts: According to this article: The ligature œ is a mandatory contraction of oe in certain words (sœur "sister" /sœʁ/, œuvre "work [of art]" /œvʁ/, cœur "heart" /kœʁ/, cœlacanthe "coelacanth" /selakɑ̃t/), sometimes in words of Greek origin, spelled with an οι /oj/ diphthong which became oe in Latin, pronounced /ø/ (formerly /e/) in French (and other Romance languages): œsophage /øzɔfaʒ/, œnologie /ønɔlɔʒi/. It may also appear in œu digraph (or œ alone in œil "eye"), in words that were once written with eu digraph (which could be read /y/ or /œ/, depending on the word): bœuf "ox" /bœf/, bœufs "oxen" /bø/ (Old French buef or beuf), mœurs /mœʁ/ "custom", œil "eye" /œj/, etc. In these cases, the Latin etymon must be spelled with an o where the French word has œu: bovem > bœuf, mores > mœurs, oculum > œil. Acording to fr:Œnologie L’œnologie (à prononcer [enɔlɔʒi] et non [ənɔlɔʒi]) est l'art du vin, de la culture à la consommation en passant par la récolte, la vinification, l'élevage, la conservation et la dégustation.
[edit] AfricaI really think we should add more information about the French language in Africa, since most French- speakers live there. I think we should add information about; African-French dialect with phonology, grammer etc. the legal status of French and it's development, and also something about African-French native speakers. Aaker 21:03, 22 October 2006 (UTC) [edit] German FrenchI removed "German French" because there was no indication of what that is supposed to be and because that does not exist according to other reference works i have. --Espoo 20:18, 29 October 2006 (UTC) [edit] Needs much more overview, fewer obscure detail in this main articleThe article presently jumps into obscure facts about the legal status of French, before describing what French is as a language that developed from Latin, started out as the local language of Ile de France, spread to become the standard language of the whole of France, went through several historical periods, has this and that magnificent literary eras, was expanded around the world by colonialism, has these general linguistic characteristics and today has these specific legal statuses in various places. Each in a readable one- or two-paragraph section, with links to more detailed articles. Pretend a Martian is reading this. He's looked at a map and seen "France" -- tell him about the language spoken there. [edit] Sound samples: IPAMoved these posts to the Above discussion as they are the same discussion and go together.--Mrboire (talk) 14:42, 3 March 2009 (UTC) [edit] difference with French articlethe French article states there are 51 languages not 30, that makes the language upranks to 8 (instead of 9). the European Union is listed there as official language a basic info which is not featured here and is pretty suspicous to me isn't it? (i've red somewhere OTAN docs are published in both English and French, can someone confirm this?). why don't you use the French language article data? Shame On You 15:11, 20 November 2006 (UTC) [edit] WikiversityHey all you native French speakers, French teachers, et al. The v:French Department at Wikiversity could use a hand! Come on over.--Elatanatari 22:37, 25 November 2006 (UTC) [edit] Decision timeIt's fair to say that there are many sources on how many people speak French fluently around the world. We need to decide on which one we're going to use, or whether we're going to use several to give a range instead of one hardcore number. Right now there's a discrepancy between the lead (175 million) and the infobox (128 million). The lead figure comes from the Francophonie and the infobox one comes from Ethnologue, which makes me think the latter is more reliable. But anyway.....ideas? Opinions? We need decide something here and stick with it because these numbers in this article change very frequently...and they shouldn't.UberCryxic 16:01, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, I come here about once a year, and thereäs the usual nationalist bullshit. The French lie through the teeth to exaggerate the influence of their language and downgrade that of English. Treat all figures with extreme scepticism. If you count non Europeans excolonials as native French speakers, make sure to count anglophones in these comtinents and add these to the English tally. That is, if the French insist on saying "all" congolese speak French, count all Indians in the English speaker tally.... Weäll win anyway, French bastards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.42.91.120 (talk) 23:42, 11 December 2007 (UTC) [edit] History of French in Spanish in WikiArticleI don't think anyone noticed that the part of the French article is in Spanish. This should be translated into English and it would be nice if someone has a reason for this. Is this vandalism? Bardock the Mexican [edit] Samples IPAThe placement of the IPA renderings between slashes indicates that they are phonemic rather than phonetic. If they are phonemic, I question the appearance of the colon in several of them to represent a long vowel. Vowel length isn't phonemic in French, so the colon is extraneous and should be omitted. If, on the other hand, these are intended to be phonetic renderings, then they should be between square brackets, not slashes, per standard linguistic conventions. —Largo Plazo 15:14, 17 January 2007 (UTC) [edit] CategoriesHi all. There are way too many (I believe) categories for this article - I tried to reduce them in what I thought was a fair way but was reverted, so I'll bring it here for discussion. The main reason for this glut of categories is the "Languages of XXX"-type categories, of which French language is in 40! (largely due to every country from List of countries where French is an official language getting their own category). My suggestion for changing it is reducing these to solely:
Please let me know if this would be ok and would be 'balanced' (as the user who reverted accused me of failing to be). If you don't agree, or have any suggestions, please also respond. If you think the idea is terrible, please try to suggest alternative plans for reducing the article's 50 or so categories to something more manageable. Proto::► 15:59, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] ArchivingThis talk page needs archiving. S.D. ¿п? § 01:15, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] French-speaking countriesIn the list of French-speaking countries, "Central Africa" goes to a page about Central Africa, but it seems like it should be renamed and relinked to "Central African Republic"—do you agree?
[edit] former coloniescountries like lebanon and romania have a fair amount of francophone spokers too, why aren't they mentionned here? Louis R14 16:39, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
I think you're confusing french overseas territories and french overseas départements, which have totally different administrative status. The latter (Guadeloupe, Martinique, Guyane & Reunion) are part of the French Republic, and all its laws apply, including those regarding official language, just as they apply to other départements such as Paris or the Loire. In other words, once you mention french is the official language of France, these four are covered. Specific mention of overseas territories, where various forms of local government exist outside the boundaries of the Republic, makes more sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.132.234.206 (talk) 21:35, 24 January 2009 (UTC) [edit] EurocentricThe present article seems very Eurocentric to me especially since most French-speakers live in Africa. Aaker 21:54, 14 February 2007 (UTC) No, they don't.CharlesMartel 17:50, 18 February 2007 (UTC)CharlesMartel Actually, they do. But if you're just counting native speakers, you are probably right. Aaker 17:57, 26 February 2007 (UTC) [edit] Quebec EnglishI'm a native speaker of Quebec English, and I think that the influence of French on the way native speakers of English speak their language isn't strong enough to warrant the inclusion of Quebec English on [edit] ChiacIn my opinion, the characterization of Chiac as a language derived from French rather than a dialect of French is way off. Do you have a better way of cattagorizing it or a reason for this opinion? If not, your faceless opinion doesn't matter.CharlesMartel 17:48, 18 February 2007 (UTC)CharlesMartel
[edit] Number of speakers conflict of sourcesOne source, the one currently used in this article, seems to strongly contradict the numbers found in this source, although the age of the data is about the same. Could anyone reconcile these differences in number of speaker figures? Thanks. Deco 00:01, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] AfricaI don't think "African French" and "Maghreb French" qualify as dialects, especially since there are so few native speakers. Are the native speakers known to speak in a markedly different way than European Francophones? Also, just because Africa has the most Francophones doesn't mean it's the continent where the language is most widely used. You can be capable of speaking French, but still use other languages most of the time. Joeldl 21:59, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Aaker 17:39, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
The Africa section says that most francophones live on that continent, but this is not true. Francophone means speaker of French as a first language, while most of the admittedly numerous African French speakers are second language speakers. This line needs to be changed.AnthroGael 09:13, 3 November 2007 (UTC) "Sociolinguistique bioécologique du français La langue française a été introduite en Afrique par le fait colonial. Ce qui caractérise ce français d’Afrique, c’est sa diversité, sa continuité, son constant changement, sa capacité à phagocyter les autres langues au point de provoquer leur extinction, sa conservation ou son habileté à se renouveler, à s’enrichir au contact des autres forces linguistiques. En effet, la variabilité caractérise le français d’Afrique : il y a autant de langues françaises en Afrique que de milieu socioculturel où elle est employée. C’est ainsi qu’on parlera plutôt des français d’Afrique : français d’Afrique de l’Ouest, français d’Afrique centrale, français d’Afrique du Nord. Et même à l’intérieure de ces grandes divisions, on parle des français nationaux : français de Côte-d’Ivoire, du Cameroun, d’Algérie, etc" Source The term African-French is however used often. Since I don't have my professors source available, I have to continue to search for other sources. Aaker 19:04, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
The following sentence seems questionable: "French is considered to be a more sophisticated language by some elements of the Egyptian upper and upper-middle classes". I put in a citation request. Even if assuming there is a valid reference, the sentence itself still has a problem. Perhaps in an attempt to soften the tone, it says "by some elements of..."; however, this formulation makes the sentence almost meaningless since "some" can mean a tiny fraction of the group. It might be equally valid to say that some elements believe in UFOs, or that some elements are taller than 2.1 metres. --AnthroGael 04:06, 22 November 2007 (UTC) [edit] PunctuationSome other language pages have a section on punctuation and capitalization rules. See Romanian language for example. How about one here? There are a few things in French that are quite different from English in this regard: - French quotation marks, and the use of dashes for written dialogues - the use of non-breaking spaces before question marks, exclamation points, colons and semi-colons - different usage of commas (actually, I'll have to look up the rule on this one) - use of colons where English might use a dash (Il existe trois types de bla : le premier, le deuxième et le troisième.) I'm sure there are some more. While I work on a draft for the section, any additions to this list are welcome. Daniel 203.97.173.115 23:28, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] ProtectionIsn't it time to protect this article? Just take a look at its history, the page is vandalised and reverted many times per day. Aaker 22:56, 18 March 2007 (UTC) [edit] FrancophobiaThere are just many francophobes...—Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.200.255.121 (talk)
[edit] FrancophonieIt seems rather odd that countries like Bulgaria and Egypt, with no official representation of French e.g. official documents etc, are in La Francophonie. The executives should only let in nations who are mostly francophone.Sealpiano 23:00, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] 500?!?!?500 million speakers? Ha Ha Ha Funny —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.10.244.186 (talk) 00:02, 1 May 2007 (UTC). Unbelievable!! come one... if we count all the ppl in the world that knows how to says "hello" then at least 5 billion people should be listed on the English language page. Way to go for a GA+ rating :) Petrovsky18 08:01, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
I am French, travelled to many places in the world and I do believe that the 500 million speakers is a very excessive number. I read the 3 reference pages and they're just propaganda with no real sources. Someone with more knowledge should edit this page, it's about quality not quantity. L'Écolier 14:17, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
This figure "Knowledge of French in the European Union and candidate countries" is also really doubtful.. Can you believe that e.g. in the UK so many people (20%) speak French? British don't speak almost any language, come on! :/ PiusPeto 16:57, 16 May 2007 I've created that map. It is based on the data presented in the EU survey Source: [3], data for EU25, published before 2007 enlargement. I created two other maps as well, see Languages of the European Union. I don't find the survey or the map doubtfull at all. Aaker 23:30, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Help with translationI am curently working on a madagascar history article.I have come across the following,however do not speak french,so could someone PLEASE asist?Thanks. "Tsiomeko, petite nièce d’Andriantsoly, roi Boéni chassé par les Hova, fut élue reine en 1836 à l'âge de 8 ans à la mort de sa grand-tante Oantitsy qui avait succédé à son frère Andriantsoly. Elle dut se retirer à Nossi-Comba en juin 1837, pourchassé par les Hova. En effet, elle était la fille de Taratra, souer d’Andriantsoly, enlevée par Radama I qui l’avait fait à Manjakaray (Antananarivo). La princesse Soazara, reine actuelle d’Analalava est l’arrière, arrière petite fille de Tsiomeko. La royauté d’Analalava est issue des trois royautés du Nord de Madagascar : Sakalava bemihisatra, par Tsiomeko, Sakalava Zanifotsy, par Derimany, mari de Tsiomeko. Leur fils Tehimbola prit pour une femme Anjaka, fille de Tsiresy, Sakalava Bemazava. Cette dernière porte d’ailleurs, le nom à titre posthume d’Andriamanohiarivo (la princesse qui lie des milles), c’est à dire, Zaafinimena bemihisatra+ Zafinimena bemazava+ Zafinifotsy= royauté d’Analalava." New Babylon 2 15:07, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Ive also come across the following "Reine OANTITSY (1832-1836) qui , elle-même, était la sœur du Prince ANDRIANTSOLY. (1832-1836), celui qui a été chassé d’abord par l’armée de RADAMA 1(probably 1er) ...." and this french wikipedia article: "Andriantsoly (Tsi Levalou) est parmi les derniers héritiers du roi sakalava de Madagascar. Vaincu par les troupes de Radama appuyées par les forces étrangères dont il fit des victimes dans les hauts rangs. Alors il partit se retrancher avec quelques membres de sa cour à Mayotte après l'insurrection de 1825, où, à Kani, à Tsangamoudzi, à Poroani, ils répandent la langue malgache parlée sur les côtes Nord Madagascar. JaoJoby dans son album musical intitulé Madagascar, au titre 5 "Mahore" énumère plus ces villages ou ces villes habités. Andriantsoly a été assassiné sur Petite Terre, au croisement des chemins qui mènent vers les villes de Pamandzi, de Labatoire, de Dzaoudzi; après la remise de Mayotte sous protectorat français, en concertation étroite avec le régent mahorais Madi,son hôte,contre les envahisseurs 'sultans des rives de l'océan indien et du canal de Mozambique. Son tombeau royal au modèle de ses origines malgaches se situe au sommet de la montagne sur la Grande Terre Mamoudzou, donnant une vue sur la mer, la route de la barge qui rallie les deux terres quotidiennement. Ce tombeau est sous la surveillance et l'entretien de fidèles." .However,I only got it from a google search result page,because the source (http://www.edbm.gov.mg/sakatia/PCD_NB.pdf) doesnt show on my computer.Could someone please go there and see if its just me?Thanks.New Babylon 2 16:07, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] The map of Francophone AfricaThe map of Francophone Africa lacks the island-states of Mauritius, the Seychelles and the Comoros, and the French DOM, TOM, Réunion and Mayotte. I don't know anything about svg-graphics so I cannot fix it myself. 192.121.234.101 10:24, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
OK, I didn't notice this was coming from an EU survey. In any case, a significant percentage of people in rural ares of metropolitan France were native only in their local Patois and had to learn French as a second language, and I'm talking about generations that are still alive. So, contrary to popular belief, it wasn't only the Corsicans and the Britons who had to give up their local dialects, but also farmers from the French heartland. Unfortunately all kinds of patois and regional dialects of France (with minor exceptions) have been given extremely little to no cultural value. Miskin 23:59, 3 June 2007 (UTC) Algeria is a purely biligual country, talking about Arabic and Berber.French has no official status. Apart from some intellectuals or immigrants, people who can understand french are relatively few, those who can speak it much fewer.Besides there is no Algerian french or Maghreb French as stated in some comments; there is no native speaker of french in the Maghreb- the last french families who remained after the independence left Algeria in the 90's- unless you are counting immigrants who live in france, if so their accent ought to be counted as a variety of french french , it's irrelevant to relate it to the Maghreb. Moreover, Algeria had never been a member in la frncophonie; bouteflika is the first president to attend its summit, but as a guest--Sayih 23:38, 3 December 2007 (UTC) Ever been to Algeria? If so, you know that French is as commonly used as Classic Arabic and in many fields French strongly predominates. People who understand French are not few (not relatively nor in total numbers) and the number is increasing. Algeria is not the only country in Maghreb and there are lots of Francophones in Tunisia, Morocco and Mauritania. I know that this is a political question in Algeria and that the islamist movement wants to reduce the use of French. However, that alone is not a reason to change the article. Aaker (talk) 20:46, 22 July 2008 (UTC) [edit] VoiceI don't know who did that French Canadian voice, but it sounds totally wrong to me (I'm a Quebeker)...
[edit] Is Spanish more important than French in Morocco and Western Sahara?I'm a little confused. According to the Spanish language map Spanish is spoken in Morocco and Western Sahara. If this is incorrect please let the Spanish language page know.
About Moroccan emigrants in Spain see;[5] and in France;[6]. Aaker 09:46, 4 July 2007 (UTC) A lot of people in Marocco speak spanish, but french is more tought and spoken. Much more. In western sahara spanish is almost dsappear.--Alessandro.pasi 18:21, 5 July 2007 (UTC) [edit] Writing system unchanged?This sentence appeared in the last line of the section entitled "Writing System": "Some attempts have been made to reform French spelling, but few major changes have been made over the last two centuries." I suppose it depends on what someone calls "major", but I feel this statement is false. The Académie française has produced four completely new editions in the last two hundred years - 1835, 1878, 1932-1935 and 1992 - and is currently in the process of producing the newest, ninth edition. (Please see: http://www.academie-francaise.fr/ ). These works include hundreds of important "reforms" to spelling. When the last one was introduced, in 1992, it was greeted acrimoniously by the French press and the public. (Please see this official site for specifics about this reform: http://www.orthographe-recommandee.info/ ) If these changes had been considered to be "minor" by professional writers and citizens, certainly there would have been no protests. - - I will delete this sentence and ask someone to replace it with something more appropriate. Respectfully Charvex 22:22, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Official Language of the Olympic CommitteeIsn't French one of the official languages of the olympic committee and of the international red cross? If so shouldn't this be added in to the page. [edit] Interpol and Mauritius.One of the official languages of Interpol is French. Shouldn't that be included? Also, English is the official language of Mauritius therefore that country should be stricken from the list of countries whose official language is French in the Africa section. French is spoken by a large proportion of the population however and is a de facto language.
[edit] CategorizationPlease see Talk:Romance languages#Confusion in categories. Any input is appreciated. --Amir E. Aharoni 12:46, 6 August 2007 (UTC) [edit] Vietnam light blue????Ha Ha Ha Ha... You've got to be kidding. I have been in Vietnam and Laos. Noone speak french. Just a little in Cambodia
[edit] New map?? What do you think about this map? The following things have been changed:
So what do you think?Aaker 14:07, 15 August 2007 (UTC) I think it's much better.
[edit] False claim to be wary ofApparently, a claim that French is an administrative language in Maine originated at some point on this article, then spread to Maine. I see it is no longer here, and I've pulled it from the Maine article. This is a false claim that apparently originated on Wikipedia - see Voulez-vous: How do you say Wikipedia in French, pp 16-17, July 2007 issue of Down East: The Magazine of Maine. GRBerry 20:01, 24 August 2007 (UTC) [edit] Er ...Apologies for using this as a discussion forum, but just a quickie - Do you guys think one can learn French from the websites that purport to teach it, or does one need an actual teacher. Many tanks. Amit@Talk 15:15, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Translation?Does anyone know how to say "Be yourself" in casual French? (Considering that the "be" is imperative, yet not aggresive.) Kikiluvscheese 03:44, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Bonjour=Hello In English —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.7.9.211 (talk) 19:14, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] "French in Canada" sizeShouldn't we make the section about french in canada a little shorter. In my opinion it's way too long, while french in switzerland is 2 lines long. 201.79.46.184 01:10, 19 September 2007 (UTC) I have to agree with this. There is too much detail on the specific legal framework in which the French language functions in Canada. IF the originally author could, it would be nice to limit comments to the official statements and laws while using separate entries to link them to the more detailed information given.AnthroGael 09:13, 3 November 2007 (UTC) [edit] New geographical division?The present article divides the French-speaking world in these regions:
This division is probably based on the usual division of the world in continents. I think this division is inadequate however because it doesn't reflect the reality of where French is spoken. Therefore I think a division like this would be better:
I also think that the four first regions (in bold) should be prioritised since most French-speakers live there. Any opinions? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aaker (talk • contribs) 22:48, 28 October 2007 (UTC) I find that the existing division by continent, then more detailed sub-division, is clearer and more useful. It follows a logical pattern for the general user, and plainly states which areas use the French language. dbfirs 09:40, 20 January 2008 (UTC) [edit] French Canada Section appears biasedWhen I read this section it left me the impression as being biased and written by someone with a purist/separatist agenda. Any discussion regarding French in Canada may best be served by a larger article NOT on this page. This separate page would include a better representation of French outside of Quebec as well as French/English controversies (i.e. Bill 101 prohibiting English only or predominate English signs) within the province. The neutrality of this article seems dubious. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scottfurry (talk • contribs) 10:38, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Please help!!!!!!Hello my fellow wikipedians! I am not a french speaker, but I am fluent in what we ballet dancers like to call "ballet-french" - all balletic terminology is in french, and since french was the official language of the imperial russian court (where ballet was cultivated), most important historical sources from Imperial Russia dealing with ballet contain many french passages, and so all libretti for the Imperial theatres was in this language. I have developed an interest in learning the language. I recently posted the listing, in french, of the dances and mise en scène for Tchaikovsky's The Sleeping Beauty (ballet) (scroll down to the structure section) from the Imperial Russian ballet's program of 1890. Using my knowledge of "ballet-french", I "filled in the holes", so to speak, for passages which were not listed in my sources. this user came in and corrected a few passages, mostly my awful typos (Im the worst with this when typing, even in english!), but in one passage the user changed du to de la, and in another he left du alone. I always thought that du meant of the, just as de la means of the ... but what determines using one or the other? For example, the user left "Variation du Prince Désiré" alone, while he changed "L'arrivée du Fée des lilas" to "L'arrivée de la Fée des lilas". Is du a contraction of de la? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrlopez2681 (talk • contribs) 06:14, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Another question, and proofreading?My next question is with regard to the word Grand. I've noticed that, depending on which word follows it, the word Grand will be spelled with an e at the end, thus Grande. For example, Grande valse includes the e; but Grand adage does not. What would determine this?? Also, I have entered in listings of the dances and mise en scène for a few of the ballets I written articles for here on wikipedia, using my knowledge of "ballet french" when my old Imperial-Russian-era libretti didn't include all of the titles of the dances, scenes, etc. in the list. It would be great if my fellow wikipedians who speak french could proof read these! I would be most greatful! They are listed in the article under the headline "structure". BTW - please excuse me if I have butchered the french language and its grammar! I tried my best ... :) --Thanks Mrlopez2681 08:19, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] French in EgyptWhat is the heck is that?! "French is considered to be a more sophisticated language by some elements of the Egyptian upper and upper-middle classes; for this reason, a typical educated Egyptian will learn French in addition to English at some point in his or her education" Egyptian don't use french , both the upper and upper-middle classes don't speak or use it , they may know a little bit about it due to secondary school education "in case they choose french instead of german or italian" but it's not used at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.196.164.200 (talk) 13:33, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
I just got back from Egypt. I used English everywhere I went and had no problems communicating. Other languages widely spoken by Egyptians include Russian and German. Sorry no French. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.161.69.75 (talk) 12:14, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] French Rank in the USMore than once in the past several months I have changed the listing of French to third most-spoken in the US from fourth position. The logic - mistaken in my view - of placing French as fourth most-spoken in the US is that behind English and Spanish there are more Chinese speakers. The two cited-references (very reliable Census Bureau figures) show that this is inaccurate. In the first case, Chinese is not a language, but a group of languages. Cantonese and Mandarin stand out, among many different Chinese languages, as the two most commonly spoken Chinese languages in the US. All combined, these languages do surpass French as a single language. However, if we are to combine closely related languages in one case, we must also do this in other cases. On a purely linguistic level, this would combine all the latin languages, but I recognize the combination of Chinese languages is more a politico-cultural continuity. As such, I would only add French Créole and Patois to the balance of French, which would, nevertheless, give French a clear numerical advantage over Chinese. So, whatever way you look at it, French is the third most-spoken language in the US. AnthroGael (talk) 16:12, 6 February 2008 (UTC) [edit] HistoryThe history section needs a clean up. Presently one can just read about the Celtic influences which ironically are almost non-existent. Aaker (talk) 13:07, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Bias MapsWhen it comes to maps that show where languages are spoken wikipedia is suffering from double standards. Why is it that the French map uses a number colours to show where French is spoken highlighting the fact that some countries may have French as an official language but not as their main lanugage while the Spanish language map just colours in any country where the language is official regardless of whether the majority of the population speaks Spanish or not. For example, Paraguay is predominantly a Guarani speaking country yet it is the same colour as Spain! For language maps to be useful they should all follow the same criteria!
Please look at the Guarani article before posting comments. The Spanish language map only uses a different colour for US states. It has no official status in the US! In Paraguay Guarani is spoken by 90% of the population while Spanish is spoken by 75% of the population —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.161.69.75 (talk) 12:44, 11 April 2008 (UTC) [edit] French speakers and countriesThe total speakers of the language are more or less 265 million people (115 native or similar level). The countries where is official is 29. Source: la Francophonie. So, it is disgusting all other figures. You need to change it very fast. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.198.58.24 (talk) 19:51, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
[edit] French Canadian ExamplesAs far as I can see, there is no difference between the pronunciations shown for French and French Canadian, so I question why there are two columns shown. Also, I was told by a French Canadian teacher that Si, in answer to a negatively posed question, is not common. A Québecois is more likely to say something like "Ben oui!". Comments? Jpaulm (talk) 22:42, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Also many parts of an automobile are different - Quebecers tend to use the Anglo-Saxon word (e.g. tire vs. pneu). Jpaulm (talk) 01:45, 27 August 2008 (UTC) Hi. I don't know about Québec, but in France everybody will answer "Si" in that case, just like you thought. --AurelieM (talk) 23:53, 20 July 2008 (UTC) I know the France French usage - I was taught it in school! - I was asking about Quebec usage. Jpaulm (talk) 01:45, 27 August 2008 (UTC) [edit] Law French used in British legal documentsIm rather surprised that the fact that Law French is used whenever a new law is passed in Britain isn't in this article. Surely that is notable enough to be used here, at least in my opinion. Please reply. Ironman1503 11:07 14 June 2008 (GMT) [edit] Voiceless stops "never glottalised"??I question the statement, in the "Sounds" section, that French voiceless stops "are never glottalised". To my ear, at least, French speakers from France frequently pronounce /p/, /t/, and /k/ with a simultaneous glottal closure or narrowing. My observation is admittedly not a valid source — and I'm not proposing to change the existing text to say that voiceless stops are "always", "often", or even "sometimes" glottalized — but I don't think the text should say "never glottalised" in the absence of a reliable source to back up such a claim. Richwales (talk) 18:20, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
[edit] /ʒɛ/ /ʒɛ/ /ʒɛ/Why the /ʒɛ/ /ʒɛ/ /ʒɛ/ in the last rows of the pronunciation table towards the end of this article? They should be removed. Also, is this page protected? It would seem so. 207.112.67.79 (talk) 06:33, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Number of French speakersIn the references cited two say 115 millions + 60 millions (but are dated 2004–2005) and one says 128 millions + 72 (and is dated 2006-2007). I updated the page to the more recent figurs. Nakor (talk) 14:44, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Genders in German and FrenchI'm surprised that the word gender is mentioned only twice in this article, and one of those is in the external links section. French long ago lost the neuter gender and, like Spanish and Italian, has only masculine and feminine. Modern German has all three genders. One thing that German and French share in common, in which French differs from Spanish and Italian, is that in German and French, nouns have genders only when they are singular. Somewhere on the internet someone suggested (therefore, it must be true, right?) that that particular commonality between German and French is owed to the fact that the Franks were a Germanic tribe. Does that make sense? Michael Hardy (talk) 06:09, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
OK, so the French are not as German as the Germans. Thank you. Michael Hardy (talk) 21:11, 20 January 2009 (UTC) [edit] Comme ci comme çaI've removed this from the examples given since, after 10 years of living in France, I have yet to meet a single French person who actually uses "comme ci, comme ça". Furthermore, whenever I've used it, it's been laughed at. As a result I've asked dozens and dozens of French people over the years about this expression, since I know from experience that it's taught in US schools, and ALL of them have told me that it sounds corny. As far as I can tell, the effect it has on them is roughly equivalent to the effect that someone saying "gosh golly gee whillikers" would have on native English speakers. Sure, it's a recognized expression... but practically no one actually says it any more, or not seriously! --fraise (talk) 09:57, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
[edit] ItalyFrench is an official language of the Vallée D'Aoste. There is no dispute that a large number of persons speak the patois of Franco-provençal, but in order to say that most people speak that patois needs to be sourced. According to other articles aprox 68,000 people speak Franco-Provencal as a second language, out of about 130,000 which is just over half, not most. Information must be verifiable, with a neutral point of view. --Mrboire (talk) 23:45, 19 March 2009 (UTC) Of course, here the source: if you understand Italian a bit: http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valle_d%27Aosta#Lingue_in_Valle_d.27Aosta ... It deals with results of a research by Fondation Emile Chanoux: http://www.fondchanoux.org/site/pages/sondage_q1.asp (in Italian and French). In Aosta Valley people write in Italian or French, but speak Italian or Arpitan, almost never in French. French is official (not Arpitan) because once Arpitan was considered a variety or a dialect of French, but now Arpitan is recognized as a different language.--Pascar (talk)
[edit] French in CanadaAlthough the largest number of French speaking people are located in Quebec, the introduction part of the article reads correctly. French is an official language of Canada. Please see the section further below on Canada, and the article concerning French in Canada. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrboire (talk • contribs) 19:46, 24 March 2009 (UTC) [edit] An acquired tongue
What is this supposed to mean? What is an acquired tongue...? What that makes it different from "second language"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.163.2.232 (talk) 17:24, 23 April 2009 (UTC) It's possible that acquired tongue is supposed to mean "foreign language" which is not the same as "second language". Aaker (talk) 17:37, 1 May 2009 (UTC) [edit] DubiousAccording to the article, "French is understood by 23% of the UK population". This is supported by the reference, which says "French is the most commonly spoken foreign language in Luxembourg (90%), the United Kingdom (23%)...". However, I find this figure quite implasuible in any meaningful interpretation of "understood" and "spoken". Know a few words and can stumblingly piece together a very simple sentence, perhaps (though even this seems high at 23%). Speak or understand with anything remotely resembling fluency, no, I don't believe it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.129.129.59 (talk) 00:30, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Obscure question Are there French speakers in South Africa still?Know, that French Protestants went to South Africa. Wondering if French in some form is still spoken in South Africa,ceratin areas of that nation? Thanks! Merci'!(datedbyDr.EdsonAndre'JohnsonDDULCSat.Aug.292009,21stcent"X")ANDREMOI (talk) 15:46, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Frans in Suid-Afrika Vir die kompanjie was 'n Franstalige gemeenskap in die Kaap egter nie wenslik nie, en hulle het maatreëls getref om die immigrante so vinnig moontlik te laat vernederlands. Vandag is daar nog talle plek- en familiename van Franse oorsprong in Suid-Afrika. Franschhoek, een van die sentrums van die Franse setlaars, het selfs Franse straatborde. Sedert 1994 lei immigrasie uit die res van Afrika ook tot beduidende Franssprekende gemeenskappe in Suid-Afrika in plekke soos Muizenberg. Tans is daar sowat 100 000 Franstaliges in Suid-Afrikaanse, waaronder 7 600 Franse burgers. Kaapstad beskik oor 'n Franse skool, die L’École française François-le-Vaillant du Cap. Verder is die Alliance Française teenwoordig in meeste groot sentra in Suid-Afrika en bevorder die Franse Instituut (Frans: Institut français d'Afrique du Sud (IFAS)) kulturele, navorsings- en taalbetrekkinge met die Franssprekende wêreld. Thanks to the immigration of a number of Huguenot families to the Cape between 1688 and the early 18th century, a time at the Cape french spoken. South Africa's originally French Huguenot refugees, which has a stronghold in the Netherlands found later by the United East India Company encouraged to visit the Cape to emigrate. For the Company was a French-speaking community in the Cape is not desirable, and they have taken measures to immigrants as soon as possible to let vernederlands. Today there are many place and family names of French origin in South Africa. Franschhoek, one of the centers of the French settlers, even French straatborde. Since 1994 leading immigration from the rest of Africa also significant Francophone communities in South Africa in places such as Niagara. Currently there are about 100 000 South Franstaliges in Afrikaans, including 7 600 French citizens. Cape Town has a French school, L'École française de-le-François Vaillant du Cap. Furthermore, the Alliance Française is present in most major centers in South Africa and promoting the French Institute (French: Institut français d'Afrique du Sud (IFAS)) cultural, research and taalbetrekkinge with the Francophone world. [edit] French vigesimal systemThe current claim that base twenty came from the coastal regions only during the revolution cannot be correct. I know when I took a course on Old French in college, we learned that the entire number system was base 20. The number 55 was "forty-fifteen" and 35 was "twenty-fifteen" and so on. Someone with expertise needs to correct this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seberle (talk • contribs) 04:45, 7 September 2009 (UTC) [edit] creolesThis is misleading and seems like a mistake: "many creole languages developed as a result of the mixture of French and native languages, including Yoruba, Spanish, Portuguese, and English." I have edited the part about the specific languages, as it is probably unnecessary anyway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Markeilz (talk • contribs) 03:41, 19 October 2009 (UTC) [edit] French SlangHi everyone, just wanted to point out something that could be good for this article, the mention of the importance of slang in french language, and the particularity of the "Verlan" which are the inventions of words by inversing and changing them. Its something important since most of the French youth but also olds use more or less french slangs. Important words like women, which is femme, has been since long time replace by his verlan; "meuf" and has himself a second version ; "femeuh" It's a particularity in french and years after years, new words are created, with influences from immigrations ( lots of arab and french african speaking word or sound ) It would also be interesting to point out the sociological meaning of this phenomenon, because between the academic french, and the real french spoke by french, there is in fact a big difference. I just saw that there is already an article on Verlan, so maybe just a link would be enough —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.103.51.234 (talk) 22:13, 2 November 2009 (UTC) [edit] RwandaI have removed Rwanda. Whilst Rwanda is still a largely francophone country, although less and less, French no longer enjoys the status as an official language (since 2008 replaced with English), and therefore Rwanda should not be listed on this page but rather only as a country where French is spoken. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rytc (talk • contribs) 19:19, 4 November 2009 (UTC) Hey, couldn't find any official source saying that French is no longer an official language. [10] and other sources state that they changed the language of instruction, but French seems to still be an official language and more known than English. I will re-add until you provide a credible source. You may be right however since the Anglophone resents the French language bitterly. 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