| This article is within the scope of multiple WikiProjects. Click [show] for further details. |  | This article is within the scope of WikiProject Numismatics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Numismatism-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks. | |  B | This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale. | | Top | This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. | | | | [edit] 1- and 2-cent coins in Finland I have removed the following because it appears to contradict what the Bank of Finland says: http://www.bof.fi/en/setelit_ja_kolikot/eurokolikot/suomalaisten_kolikoiden_lyontimaarat 1- and 2-cent coins have been minted in the Netherlands, but never in Finland. --Boson (talk) 06:11, 23 July 2009 (UTC) [edit] Opinion please Anybody think this page is worth having? It sounded good in my head but I'm not sure if it'll go anywhere interesting so I haven't moved it from my sandbox yet: Currencies of the European Union.20:44, 21 August 2009 (UTC) - I think thats a very good idea for an article, considering almost half of the EU members currently do not use the euro, wouldnt be needed if there was only one or two. BritishWatcher (talk) 21:30, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
- That sounds like a good idea to me. I think there's a typo in the lede, by the way. It would probably be a good idea to get a decent reference for the Swedish situation.--Boson (talk) 22:40, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
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- Okay, created. I want to say more about the other currencies on there though so its not so much a duplicate of certain euro articles. any ideas?- J.Logan`t: 09:23, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Flags banners Why my modification of current euro users has been removed ? Euro is official currency (with the agreement of the european commission) of french TAAF, St Martin and St barth. It also the official currency of british bases in Cyprus (also with EU agrement)... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.155.201.159 (talk) 18:40, 25 August 2009 (UTC) - It is a tad more complicated than that, the UK bases use it in a de facto capacity as they previously used the Cypriot pound, they have no formal agreement to do so. As for the French territories, some are already part of the EU and hence don't need an agreement. See the article it links to.- J.Logan`t: 19:09, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
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- For UK bases, the agreement is given by the third protocol to the Cyprus' adhesion treaty to EU that authorizes both states to determine legal practise inside the bases as previously ruled by 1960 treaties.
For legal introduction of Euro in both bases see Ordinance 18 of 2007 (7th august 2007) http://www.sba.mod.uk/SBA%20Legislation/Ord%202007/Euro%20Ordinance%202007.pdf
So i think this isn't an "de facto" use.
For the French DOM/COM:
The protocol for France annexed to the EU Treaty authorises France to determine by an act the currency use in all oversea possessions and the parity of the Pacific franc.
France decided that euro would be used in all DOM, St Pierre et Miquelon and Mayotte, all that where using french franc in 1999.
Note that Mayotte will enter the EU in 2 years (becoming a DOM after a 2009 referendum)...
Wallis & Futuna, French Polynesia and New-Caledonia still use Pacific franc upon an local request.
So i think my modification were pertinent... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.155.201.159 (talk) 00:43, 26 August 2009 (UTC) -
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- Hmm, now we're entering the realm of what constitutes an agreement. The microstates have formal "monetary agreements" with a state and the Council on usage of the Euro, usually giving it coin minting rights. I think we need to redefine the categories to settle this. I don't know enough on this topic, I'll drop notes to other editors to clear this up so we can keep all the articles in sync.- J.Logan`t: 13:41, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
- In fact, in a broader point, what counts as an official use and an unofficial user? And should we list all overseas territories as the US$ article does?- J.Logan`t: 14:04, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
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- Official use should be considered as effective when both two following conditions are presents:
- - An international agreement from the European institutions regardless its type (Formal International treaty, unilateral act,...)
- - An internal act that made Euro legal tender regardless its type (Constitution, Act of a Parliament, Ordinance, etc...)
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- That's the way for all EU members States that decided to change their currencies for the Euro.
- For France overseas possessions, Cyprus and UK bases in Cyprus there is protocols to formal Treaty.
- For Monaco, San marino and Vatican there is a formal Treaty with France or Italy (acting fort all the UE member-states) with this micro State.
- All theses territories and States have internal acts establishing Euro as legal tender.
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- The tree categories should be:
- - EU member States:
- - Agreement with EU:
- - Others users:
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- Note than any sovereign State should adopt any foreign currency as legal tender (but it cannot be opposed to the emitting State). Zimbabwe done it (they didn't had a lot of others alternatives), it's also the case for some States with US dollar or Russian rouble.
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- I think it's necessary to list all places where Euro is (in a legal way) an official currency. There is also an use of Euro for commercial or tourist purposes but it isn't similar: it's an facility not an legal duty to use Euro (See Gilbratar, Euro accepted everywhere but only Gibraltar pounds should be officially use). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.155.200.194 (talk) 00:22, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
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- Do we have all the data on these countries though? Was there any minor agreement made with Montenegro for instance, Kosovo I think had some kind of approval as it was the UN/EU mission there choosing it. Also, should we not distingush those countries that can mint euro?- J.Logan`t: 15:02, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
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- Since it seems to be a bit unclear whether there is a suitable agreement in force or not, I suggest three categories:
- EU users
- Other EUR issuers
- Other users
- ME, AD and Kosovo can't issue EUR money, so they are "other users". GB can't issue EUR either, so the SBAs are also "other users". The DOMs are part of the EU, so they are "EU users". The TOMs are not part of the EU, but FR (of which they are a part) can issue EUR, so they are "other EUR issuers". MC, SM and VA are "other EUR issuers". (Stefan2 (talk) 18:52, 30 August 2009 (UTC))
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- For France: Euro is also the official currency of Clipperton (see art. 14 of french law n° 2007-224 of 21/02/2007) but there is nobody there ...
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- I found on the ECB site this Powerpoint done for lawyers and that list theses cases with legal references except for Montenegro
- (see http://www.ecb.int/events/pdf/conferences/emu/CZilioliEMULawyersConference.pdf)
- Note that UN isn't EU and introduction of euro in Kosovo instead of US Dollar has been decided as provisional.
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- For Montenegro:
- Euro became official currency on 1/1/2002. German mark were withdrawn on 31/03/2002.
- see http://www.mfa.gov.yu/Bilteni/Engleski/b020102_e.html#N6
- I can't find any legal reference in French, English or Spanish...
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- Regarding UN-EU, yes it isn't the same but the EU presence is so strong, I can't imagine there wasn't some kind of assent or agreement for its usage in the same way there was probably some kind of assent from the Germans. Question is, what form did that assent take? The links you have up don't really elaborate much on the situation.
- Regarding Users / other issuers other users. I'd say that's okay but we still have to fit it to the template's "official" and "unofficial". After looking through as many other articles I can find, the logic seams to be that official is not whether the country has officially adopted it, but whether said country is part of the entity or agreement which issues it. For example, US dollar is officially used by the US itself and its territories, but not by third countries even if they have adopted it as their currency. Ditto for UK pound, Australian dollar. I's say this is the safest route so we don't get bogged down in agreements which I still don't think is a good measure of whether it is official like the eurozone as you could say practically all countries using it have it as their official currency. Anyhoo, it still leaves the three countries which issue it somewhere in the middle, I say stick them under official but in a different bracket as they are now but a clearer indication of their status as "agreement" is too vague: say "extra-EU issuing rights"? That okay?- J.Logan`t: 09:51, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
Just to clarify actually, as there is the question of whether French territories outside the EU are part of the issuing area - I'd say yes so I propose this;
| using_countries = | unofficial_users = - J.Logan`t: 10:20, 31 August 2009 (UTC) -
- I propose this alternative version:
Overseas territories of EU States (83.156.115.75) - Fine with moving A&D up, but so long as we keep the headers as that makes it clear, so it would be "Member state territories outside EU" or something similar. They have to be distinguished from those within the EU which are assumed and part of the eurozone. Ditto, I don't like "Associated states with EU" as that could mean so many things, there are loads of states "associated" with the EU and in totally different ways - best to stick with issuing rights as that makes sense.- J.Logan`t: 07:49, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
What about uninhabited locations (such as Clipperton)? Euro may be legal tender on paper, but there's no one there doing any euro transactions. Should the lists be based on actual usage; that is, should we only list areas if there are people there actually using the currency? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.247.11.156 (talk) 21:41, 1 September 2009 (UTC) - It is an interesting point. I included it in good faith from the above proposal though I wasn't totally sure if it was warranted. Thing is, we are dealing with the legal situation here and the island is outside the EU and its official currency is the euro, ergo it goes in the list. But of course there is no one there so no currency circulates. I figure this is something that needs to be put in a side note, and as we can't put a note after we remove it I say we include it but put a ref saying no one lives there so it is de jure only. Anyone else got thoughts on this matter?
- I'd also like to point out to the person who altered the template, that TAAF is inhabited, but only sparsely.- J.Logan`t: 11:40, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
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- EUR is the de jure currency of the Terres australes et antarctiques françaises, but which currency is used de facto by the inhabitants?
- Euro, I haven't seen anything to the contrary.- J.Logan`t: 13:35, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
- I thought that Antarctica was full of different research stations from different countries, using different currencies on each station. Are there only Eurozone research stations in the French part of Antarctica? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.247.11.156 (talk) 14:02, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
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- De facto, Euro is used for all transaction in TAAF: in Kerguelen for buying stamps or goods such as a Telécarte (local phone cards for using on satellite public phones), in Dumont D'urville base (Antartica) also use in binational Concordia base (France & Italy). In all TAAF there is permanent human presence with postal office and a government local office.
- for stamps, see http://www.taaf.fr/rubriques/philatelie/timbres/philatelie_timbres.htm
- For the flag use it could be easier to use
Overseas territories of EU States
In Antartica, there is several bases from Eurozone States: - Aboa / Finland - Condordia / France & Italy - Dumont d'Urville / France - Gabriel de Castilla / Spain - Juan Carlos 1st / Spain - Princess Elisabeth / Belgium - Neumayer III / Germany - Kohnen / Germany - Zucchelli / Italy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.122.122.197 (talk) 12:51, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
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- So, what do we do ?
- Do we include this version ?
Overseas territories of EU States
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- It's already in place.- J.Logan`t: 15:30, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
No need for a Finnish footnote, but otherwise fine. Alandia has always used the same currency as the rest of Finland, so nothing strange there. (212.247.11.156 (talk) 20:53, 13 September 2009 (UTC)) [edit] €, €c, Euro cents, number of digitals after the decimal sign and ... k€ and M€ Request for comments/collaboration on writing a chapter on the above mentioned topic I notice often € and other currencies, s.a. $ and Pound Sterling are quoted till 4 digits after the komma, which makes sense as there is a large market that e.g. quoting prices of commodities e.g. potatoes upto 4 digits after the komma as they are often quoted in Euro cents. We need an official way to write down Euro cents: €c or €cents or Euro cents or Euro Cents or even c€ ... like you'd have grams=g and milli grams = mg ... and on the other side of the komma: kg. What do you think, which one should we go for? And we have to make sure people quoting prices in c€ to do that upto 2 figures after the komma: 7,85 c€ to be concistent with the 4 digit €: 0,0785 € = 7,85 c€. On the other side of the scale, k€ and M€ are often needed to in this world of upscaling under the Agenda21 and Low Carbon Economy. Here's my assist to start a paragraph on this topic: €, c€, k€, M€ and numbers of digits after the digital sign There is a worldwide agreement that currencies like the €, $, etc. are quoted upto 4 digits after the digital sign. There is a necessity in many sectors to quote the € in Euro cents and kilo Euro, Mega Euro. To be congruent in logic, people in sectors that need to quote prices in Euro cents are requested to do so as follows: 7,89 c€ and not 7,9 c€. Because 7,89 c€ is in line with the logic of quoting € upto 4 digitals after the decimal sign: 0,0789 € and in line with the directives of the EU Comissionar on the protection of consumers, avoiding that rounding up decimals result in large absolute sums not being directed to the consumer yet into the pockets of traders, not even the producers. The c€ follows the logic of SI for e.g. 7,89 grams = 0,0799 kilo grams = 0,0799 kg This logic is also used as a directive for sectors needing to quote or work in large numbers, for them it is recommended to use k€, M€ and dropping any reference to after digit numbers, which - in mathematics - suggest to the reader the numbers have a precision to 2 or 4 digits after the decimal sign. An email has to be sent to the ISO organisation and to the European Comission, DG on Communication, DG Consumer Protection, DG Trade to help write and implement this directive and oblidge ISO to write the directive and make sure it is know worldwide. I've sent an email to EU-DG Communication to Claudia CANNEVARI on the topic and requesting her help to push this at the ISO organisation. Working on Agenda21-Chapter IV: Means of Implementation / Bringing money to the citizen/consumer. --SvenAERTS (talk) 11:18, 3 October 2009 (UTC) - Full support. --Dch (talk) 06:27, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
- People usually say "cents" or "euro cents", but I've never heard of "centieuros", so "c€" looks strange to me. (130.237.227.116 (talk) 15:14, 5 October 2009 (UTC))
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- The biggest problem with this as it stands is that, while it is all a valid opionion, it falls foul of WP:OR. We can only report what is, we can't report what should be (in your opinion).
- We can certainly say that the ECB has not announced a symbol for cent.
- We can say (with citations) that some shops and market traders have adopted the notation, ¢ that is common in the USA - provided we can find a citation or at least a photograph. I have seen this in Ireland and Italy.
- It is common in business spreadsheets to head a column with k€, k$ or k£, or with M€, M$ and certainly M¥, as appropriate. But these are certainly not seen in general public use, so it is POV/OR to report them unless you can find a mainstream press article where one is used. Some business people choose to follow the ISO convention for thousand and million, but there is no ISO specification that says this, and we can't report that there is - still less that there ought to be.
- Precision has to be related to the context. €0.789 is a sensible figure if talking about the price per grain of gold in buiness. If the subject is an an apple in your corner shop, 79¢ is sensible and 78.9¢ or €0.789 are slightly insane.
--Red King (talk) 11:05, 6 October 2009 (UTC) -
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- Article Cent says [without citation] that a simple c is widely used throughout the Union to denote cents, though no doubt the Greeks use λ. --Red King (talk) 12:08, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
- Well, it's incorrect. The only place I've been to where the "c" notation was common is Ireland. Everywhere else it's "ct," "Cent," "€ 0,99" or the dreaded overlong "eurocent." But these things are different in different languages, and we should be following English-language conventions here.SergioGeorgini (talk) 02:12, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
- This is English Wikipedia, so when we discuss the appropriate notation of usage we refer to the one English speaking country which uses the euro: Ireland. Anyone know how they spell cent in Greek?? — Blue-Haired Lawyer 16:53, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
- Lepton, Λεπτου or similar - it's on the national side of the greek cent. --Red King (talk) 23:53, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
- I'm getting confused with my atomic particles. Cent (currency) says
- Euro - the coins bear the text EURO CENT; Greek coins have "ΛΕΠΤΟ" ("lepto") on the obverse of the one-cent coin and "ΛΕΠΤΑ" ("lepta") on the obverse of the others. Actual usage varies depending on language.
--Red King (talk) 23:56, 10 October 2009 (UTC) [edit] side note - Just a small side note. I understand that the euro articles are mostly edited by Europeans, most of whom speak English as a second language, and that makes sense, but please realize that English has its own peculiar ways of writing things. For one, decimals are separated by periods, not commas as in most European languages. The currency sign comes before, and if a K is used it is used as following: "€10K." Not "10 k€." And if a standard notation for euro cents is needed, then in English that would be either "€0.99," "99c" or "99¢." These things cannot be centralized, as much as the EU would like it to. SergioGeorgini (talk) 00:00, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
- ... much as EU demonologists like to think that it would like it to, but it doesn't. Ever heard of subsidiarity#European Union law? --Red King (talk) 13:08, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
- We're digressing. SergioGeorgini (talk) 02:12, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
- I have never seen the US cent sign (¢) used for a euro cent, it is not even on the keyboards in most European countries. I had to copy-paste it! The usual notation is "€0.05", I have only rarely seen "5c"; though perhaps somebody with from Ireland (the one English speaking country which has the euro as official currency) could inform us what is common practice there. I don't think you can claim that most of the editors are not native English speakers. Apart from the Irish, there are a large number of British people with familiarity with the euro from travel, plus > 1 million who live in euroland[1]. See also Linguistic issues concerning the euro. TiffaF (talk) 09:03, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
- While it's slightly off-topic, I really do think that the hundreds of instances of "40,5€," "30,--€" and similar notations that have appeared on Wikipedia articles over the years can be attributed to continental Europeans. The original poster of this thread also uses commas as decimal separators, and therefore I suspect he or she might also fall into this category. There's nothing wrong with that of course; it makes perfect sense that an article on a German company would be edited by a German. However, it should be noted that such notations vary per language and not per sign. The Irish tend to use a "c," by the way. Probably analogous to the "p" for pence. SergioGeorgini (talk) 23:21, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Irish word for euro As was mentioned by someone in archive 6, no one in Ireland who speaks Irish uses the word "eoró". We only ever use "euro" in Irish. As someone who speaks Irish, I can vouch for the fact that the common everyday spelling for the currency in Irish is euro. The Irish government only ever uses "euro" in the Irish language, the education system teaches "euro" as the correct spelling, and the language's regulatory body, Fóras na Gaeilge, uses "euro" as does focal.ie, the only online dictionary endorsed by Fóras na Gaeilge. With this in mind, I am removing "eoró" from this article. If anyone can give a good reason or reference for its inclusion, please do inform us. Dennisc24 (talk) 13:03, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Precursors of the Euro In The Times of 25 August 1838, from a report of a speech by IP Cory
'I should be unwilling to close this paper (on decimal currency) without advertising to the advantage which might be derived from a general convention dollar of all the civilized kingdoms, bearing the insignia of each separate kingdom upon its obverse, and some general conventional symbol upon its reverse. ... (Suggested countries involved included France, Austria, Saxony, Bohemia, and Sicily and Naples) ... it would not only facilitate our commerce as an instrument of exchange, but would eventually become the basis upon which a general convention dollar would ere long be current throughout the world.'
Would this be a sufficiently close description to make the Euro unpatentable? Jackiespeel (talk) 17:54, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
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Eurozone (16)
Oversea France outside EU (Clipperton, French Southern and Antarctic Lands, Mayotte[22], Saint Barthélemy[23], Saint Martin[24] and Saint Pierre and Miquelon[25])
Akrotiri and Dhekelia (UK)[26]
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