 | This talk page is automatically archived by MiszaBot. Any sections with no replies in 30 days are automatically moved. Sections without timestamps are not archived. |  | This subject is featured in the Outline of England, which is incomplete and needs further development. That page, along with the other outlines on Wikipedia, comprise Wikipedia's Outline of Knowledge, which also serves as the table of contents or site map of Wikipedia. |  | The issue whether England is a country or not has been repeatedly raised. The outcome of discussion is that England is a country. This has been confirmed in formal mediation with respect to Wales, though the general issues are common amongst England, Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales. The discussion about Wales is summarised in this archive. Further information on the countries within the UK, including a table of reliable sources for the different terms used to describe England, Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales can be found at Countries of the United Kingdom, and Subdivisions of the United Kingdom. Additional material and debates can also be found on the archived talk and FAQs at Talk:United Kingdom. | | This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects: |  | This article is within the scope of WikiProject Countries, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Countries on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks. | |  GA | This article has been rated as GA-Class on the project's quality scale. | | | | |  | This article is within the scope of WikiProject England, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of England on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks. | | | GA | This article has been rated as GA-Class on the project's quality scale. | | Top | This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. | | |  | This article is within the scope of WikiProject United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks. | | | GA | This article has been rated as GA-Class on the project's quality scale. | | Top | This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. | | | | [edit] fact check The Prehistory and antiquity section has the sentence: "As the seas rose, it was separated from Ireland 9,000 years ago and from Eurasia half a century later." The source is to long for me to locate the relevant statement, but it seems almost impossible that the resolution could reach half a century that far back -- should it be "half a millenium" instead? Looie496 (talk) 22:16, 16 October 2009 (UTC) - Of course that's just one part of the story. Here's another. It's talking about the separation from Europe taking place perhaps as early as 450,000 years ago or as little as 200,000 years ago. This is separate from the rising sealevels theme and explains why the English Channel is below sealevel in the first place. -- Derek Ross | Talk 22:35, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
- On the resolution thing, I actually think that it's quite plausible. It should be possible to calculate what rate sea-level was rising at as the ice melted. Then given the difference in depth between the Irish Sea and the English Channel, we should be able to tell approximately how long there was between the two areas being submerged. -- Derek Ross | Talk 22:41, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
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- We should bear in mind that the separation between Britain and Europe happened more than once. Long after the Channel had been formed - [1] - a land bridge across the North Sea was re-created as "Doggerland" - [2], [3] - before later being submerged again. It was not a single process - the seas came and went, possibly many times, the result of glaciation, isostatic adjustment and so forth. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:26, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
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- It's a fascinating topic. Thanks for the link to our Doggerland article. I didn't know we had one. -- Derek Ross | Talk 18:18, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Great North Road 'destination' query As far as I'm aware, the Gt North rd goes to Edinburgh, not Newcastle. This is indicated: (c.f. http://www.thegreatnorthroad.co.uk/bookcontents.htm) What's with the four tildes? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.44.25 (talk) 21:01, 18 October 2009 (UTC) - The four tildes will make the Wikipedia server sign your comment for you, so that readers can see who wrote what. As far the Great North Road is concerned, it's not really an either/or thing. The road goes to both places: from London to Newcastle, then on to Edinburgh. Arguably it goes on to Inverness, if you count the A9. -- Derek Ross | Talk 05:46, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Acting Not one mention of it, and the leading role of England in the development of the performing arts in that field. Shakespeare is mentioned only for his contribution to literature, which is very misleading, a sentence or two should be added about the development of acting in England, which influenced theatrical traditions throughout the world. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:48, 18 October 2009 (UTC) - I'd be careful there. Yes, Shakespeare was great, but acting in England went downhill after him. In fact it had well and truly lost its way by the early nineteenth century. It was really only during the latter half of the nineteenth century that the efforts of dramatists/directors such as Gilbert, Shaw and Wilde and drama critics such as Clement Scott and William Archer started to raise it up from the dreadful abyss of melodrama that it had fallen into. And that resurrection was partly achieved by looking to foreign models such as Ibsen. So agreed, late nineteenth century English developments were very influential in the rest of the Empire but not necessarily in the rest of the world. -- Derek Ross | Talk 06:01, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
- What about the great actresses Fanny Kemble and Sarah Siddons, and Charles Kemble?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:56, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
- Charlie Chaplin? I suppose we just need to satisfy WP:V. --Jza84 | Talk 10:52, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
- I'm not denying that there were individual greats. But that is independent of the general state of acting and JudgeSurreal wasn't talking about individuals, he was talking about "the development of acting in England" which is a rather different thing. -- Derek Ross | Talk 19:40, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
[edit] RFC: calling Northern Ireland a "country" An RFC has been opened inviting comment on how to describe Northern Ireland in that article. All comments are welcome. --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid (coṁrá) 22:56, 1 November 2009 (UTC) [edit] Formula 1 Why is there the tiniest reference to Formula 1 in the article. The curent world champion, Jenson Button, is English, and statistically, England is the most successful country for Formula One (followed by Great Britain, and Bernie Ecclestone himself is English. It certainly needs a mention! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.142.85.115 (talk) 19:03, 5 November 2009 (UTC) [edit] "Education" section needs % of Brits w college degrees Actually, all of the European sections need this. The US page says it (apparently 27% of Americans have college degrees) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Clguy1234 (talk • contribs) 00:32, 6 November 2009 (UTC) [edit] Testing the water A discussion is taking place over the lede of Northern Ireland with some editors objecting to the current wording which is consistent over Wales, Scotland, England and Northern Ireland. One possible change which appears acceptable to some of the objectors is to replace "X is a country which is a part of the UK" to "X is one of the four countries of the UK". My purpose here is to test the water and ask what would be the reaction to such a change if it was made consistently on all four articles. --Snowded TALK 05:49, 8 November 2009 (UTC) - Just to clarify, those who "objecting to the current wording", "object" it in relation to Northern Ireland only (and want a more nuanced and topic-appropriate approach in relation to that article). A matter was raised that the lede must be consistent across all four articles. That is not necessary in the opinion of those who "object" to it on the Northern Ireland article. --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid (coṁrá) 21:13, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
[edit] GSTQ in the infobox IMHO, GSTQ should be excluded from the infobox, as England isn't independant. Plus, GSTQ is excluded from Northern Ireland, Wales & Scotland articles. GoodDay (talk) 19:16, 17 November 2009 (UTC) [edit] A few suggestions Hi, this is my first contribution to Wikipedia so please bear with me. I have a few observations/suggestions on the article I thought might be worth considering: - The double decker bus pictured is of an old Routemaster bus no longer in public transport service so is it appropriate to be included? (I know it is seen as an icon of London so that would be the reason to keep it)
- Healthcare is described in the "Infrastructure" section, does this really come under the definition of infrastructure, or should it have it own section (I understand reluctance to create new sections for the sake of it)
- In the cuisine section should "pork" be added to the meat joints which can be roasted as part of a Sunday roast, and "roast potatoes" are missing from the constituents of a Sunday roast.
- In the "Performing Arts" section should mention be made of West End theatres, musicals and (as much as I'm not a fan) Andrew Lloyd Webber?
- Should England's film making history and famous actors and studios be mentioned (such as Michael Caine and Pinewood)? Handlezone (talk) 20:02, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
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- Worth looking at WP:BRD, if you think a change should be made, make it. I agree with your last three, think the first is iconic, not sure about the second. --Snowded TALK 09:12, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
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- I can't make the edits myself at the moment because I only created my account yesterday and it is currently unconfirmed and the article is semi-protected. Handlezone (talk) 09:49, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
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- If you could write a draft of your proposed changes here, one of us can put it into the article for you. Also, the definition of 'infrastructure' can vary to cover many different things, including healthcare and education—I think that part of the article is fine. Thanks, Hayden120 (talk) 11:34, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Image of English Royal Standard Hi, Could someone change the image for the English Royal Standard that's being used? The version that's currently on the page looks as though it's been taken from a shield and has something very strange going on with the angle of the bottom lion's leg!!! It looks a little bit amateur for the England page (no offense intended!). May I suggest this image as a replacement, which I thinks looks a lot better and indeed like that used by the government & royal family within the royal standard of the UK: 
Otherwise liking all your work on this page btw! Brunanburh (talk) 20:03, 23 November 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brunanburh (talk • contribs) 19:57, 23 November 2009 (UTC) - I have to say I like the one above better than the one in the Infobox. --Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 20:00, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Ok so I've now altered the above image by trimming off the sides and adding to the top and bottom so that it is now a 3:5 ratio to match the dimensions of the St George's Cross image: 
Hope this helps! Brunanburh (talk) 21:17, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
- So I've now uploaded a new high-quality image at 3:5 ratio which I've set as the picture on the 'Royal Standard of England' page; follow this link for the image:
Royal Standard of England (2) at 3^5 ratio.svg | Please can someone who has editing access change the Royal Standard of England picture in the infobox to this one or let me know what you think. (Sorry for cluttering up the page with different versions but this should be the final one!) - Thanks! Brunanburh (talk) 01:31, 25 November 2009 (UTC) -
- OK, done. Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:07, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
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