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copyedit 2 paragraph lead get to 15 references alice in wonderland, older paintings Use Albatross as model Please consider the notes on phylogeny at Rodrigues Solitaire and compare Johnson & Clayton (2000) (see Pigeon article) - at least cyt b cannot resolve the relationships of the Indoaustralian lineage properly. So the phylogeny proposed in the much-touted "Flight of the Dodo" paper must be taken with so much salt that it nearly becomes unpalatable, unfortunately. See e.g. their placement of "Gallicolumba beccari" (sic), which is almost certainly wrong. At any rate, here to copy'n'paste is the citation: Shapiro, Beth; Sibthorpe, Dean; Rambaut, Andrew; Austin, Jeremy; Wragg, Graham M.; Bininda-Emonds, Olaf R. P.; Lee, Patricia L. M. & Cooper, Alan (2002): Flight of the Dodo. Science 295: 1683. DOI:10.1126/science.295.5560.1683 (HTML abstract) Supplementary information In conclusion, cyt b should be avoided for determining the interrelationships of the Indoaustralian group (for some reason, it gives crystal-clear resolution of the columbine and zenaidine lineages, however) Dysmorodrepanis 18:05, 1 September 2006 (UTC) In his book A Short History of Nearly Everything, Bill Bryson claims that the last surviving Dodo specimen was kept at the Ashmolean Museum in Oxford, until a caretaker mistakenly assumed it was rubbish and put it on a bonfire (it was apparently rescued, but not before it was seriously damaged). Parts of that specimen can still be seen at the Oxford University Museum of Natural History, namely the head and foot [2]. First it was part of the John Tradescant collection and its museum. Later is was passed on to the Ashmole Museum in 1659. In 1755, it was examined and, presumably under Ashmole's statute number 8, ordered for destruction. The instruction was obeyed, but not to the letter as parts still survive. The statute also ordered that it had to substituted, but as the bird was extinct that was not possible anymore. The parts were passed from the Ashmole museum to the Oxford museum (source: Errol Fuller's book "Extinct Birds"). http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/expeditions/treasure_fossil/Treasures/Dodo/dodo.html?dinos http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Raphus_cucullatus.html http://www.birds.mu/Extinct/Dodo.htm

Contents 1 comment 2 Dodo Tree 3 Used for Food? 4 specimens 5 Extinction date 6 Linnaeus' naming 7 Calvaria Tree 8 speculation 9 HP Reference 10 largest animal 11 Caps? 12 Popular Culture 13 Vandalism 14 Reason of Extinction 15 numbers 16 "Dumb as a dodo" 17 Phylogeny 18 Last surviving specimen 19 Dodo Clones 20 Silly link 21 Vandalism 22 Popular name 23 New Dodo Remains found 24 Somewhat ORry 25 Good Article Reassessment 26 Google description 27 "Amusing" referencing 28 GA Sweeps (Pass) 29 Old paintings 30 Popular Culture Cleaning 31 Etymology 32 Original drawing by Roland Savery from 1626 33 what is the exact meaning of the phrase "as dead as dodo" 34 Image of a stuffed Dodo

[edit] comment

I've found a large text on the net which, in some aspects, contains much more exact facts than the current wikipedia article (including exactly quoted diaries of the captains of the ships arriving to Mauritius at the time the Dodo lived). Some "thruths" from the wikipedia article then appear as oversimplifications, at best. I give the link to the English text here, somebody with the knowledge of French can take a look at the rest of the whole site:

http://www.palli.ch/~kapeskreyol/dodo/c32.php

[edit] Dodo Tree

It was discovered that the dodos ate the seeds of the tree, and only by passing through the digestive tract of the dodo did the seeds become active and start to grow. How was this discovered? I'm not saying I don't believe it, I'm just saying I think it would be interesting trivia.

Perhaps I should have written "deduced" or something like that. The web site where I found the information didn't specify, either. --Pinkunicorn

While dodos may have eaten "dodo tree" fruits, there is no solid evidence they did. Nor is there solid evidence that the dodo was absolutely required for seed germination. You can read more in another discussion here: Talk:Dodo#Calvaria_Tree, or read this: The Widespread Misconception that the Tambalacoque or Calvaria Tree Absolutely Required the Dodo Bird for its Seeds to Germinate. Peter Maas 08:01, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

I think that it did eat the seeds of the Calvaria tree because after the dodo went extinct the trees started to as well. Since then another animal might have started eating the seeds, evolution all that, that's why the tree isn't extinct now. Understand these are all deductions.(notice i like dodos)lol --Hi!! i like dodos (talk) 21:57, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

actually they had turkeys eating the fruits of the tree and then the tree started sprouting Einstein95 (talk) 07:50, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Used for Food?

I just did a quick google and the first site I found mentioned that the dodo was used extensively by the Portuguese for meat. http://www.bagheera.com/inthewild/ext_dodobird.htm

Which is correct. At the same time, I would not be surprised if the article above was the source of information for our own article, so the discrepancy is especially interesting. Danny

I was pretty sure that dodos were eaten... I'm SURE that's what we learnt in school! I'll see what I can find... KJ

I've removed the bit about dodos not being used for food, they obviously were. --Scipius 23:20 Jan 3, 2003 (UTC)

They were not, they tried to at first but found it very horrible, recent reseacrh has shown that they were not. A program on TV a few years ago showed they were not. -fonzy

fonzy, what was the title of the program? It is difficult to trust a source which can't be viewed. I also saw a program on PBS recently and it claimed the birds were often and easily hunted for food. TV isn't always right: the same program also claimed the Calvaria tree was going extinct, which I have since learned is untrue.

Does anyone know how tall the Dodo was known to grow?

It could have been up to three feet. --Bearbear 15:51, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

In the Scottish Standard Grade Exam Paper of English in 2003 had an article on Dodos. They said that the Portuguese didn't eat the dodo as its lack of breast muscles made the meat taste disgusting. There were lots of other opinions, but most are covered in the article. Unfortunately, the exam didn't say which newspaper/journal the artical came from. --Bearbear 15:51, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I forget where I read it, but I recall reading as a child that, regardless of its horrible taste, sailors coming to Mauritus killed and ate the birds anyway, as many had been confined to their ships for great lengths of time and, well, I guess being gross, uncultured swine, in the source's words (as best I can remember them), "...sailors craved fresh meat, regardless of its taste, so spurred on by long stays of maritime service and availability of only pickled meat, the helpless bird was doomed, and was hunted to extinction less than 100 years after its discovery." I am sure I am not remembering the passage correctly, the parts that I can remember, but it would certainly seem to make sense. If you were cooped up on a slow-moving boat at sea with a bunch of jacked-up, restless sailors, with only "pickled" meat to satisfy your instinctual carnivorous desires for months on end, a turtle would look like a feast, let alone a large, plump, slow-moving(?) and witless bird. --Dingno 16:17, 26 June 2006

Currently, major scientific debate on utility of dodos as food. Stay tuned; I'll add refs as they come in (primary research papers, all peer-reviered). Suffice to say it wasn't, in all probability, sailors, who were more likely to hunt for Red Rails, Mauritian Shelducks, Mauritian Ducks, etc. Escaped slaves taking to the hills, now that's another thing entirely. Cuoldn't hunt deers, found it hard to hunt hogs, and would have made use of whatever meat they could get catch. Some of thes epeople managed to avoid recapture for decades; the 1674 report is from one of these guys. Dysmorodrepanis 02:17, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] specimens

There are no museum specimens of the dodo still extant today. I presume this is to mean specimens from an original, live dodo, correct? Dysprosia 12:30, 1 Feb 2004 (UTC)

That's right, there are no stuffed birds, so the images of the Dodo are from paintings, not corpses. The last stuffed Dodo was burned because it was getting a bit smelly! jimfbleak 14:15, 1 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Sounds like a good piece of info to add to the article. Where is this museum, and when? --Menchi (Talk)â 20:01, 1 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Ah, you said it was burned because it was smelling. Are you sure about that? My perception is the goddamn museum burned down. The article is neat. I like how it explain the origin of the expression "As dead as dodo". It seem they may also have uncovered more bones. See link [1]

"The last dodo in England was stuffed by English naturalist John Tradescant. When Tradescant died in 1662, his entire natural history collection was bequeathed to an acquaintance, Elias Ashmole. Because of his irresponsibility, the entire collection’s condition greatly deteriorated, and he donated the bird to Oxford University in 1683, two years after the last living dodo was seen on Mauritius. Even Oxford did not take very good care of the bird, and except for the head and foot saved by a farsighted curator, it was later burned as trash in 1755. Evidently ‘the museum’s board of directors took one look at the dusty, stupid-looking bird and unanimously voted to discard it’." From [2]. Peter Maas\^talk 18:55, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

---

I've got a photo of a 19th century model of a dodo at User:Imran/photos if anyone wants to include it. --Imran 02:24, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Jimfbleak, it stinks the last one was burnt.(no pun intended) Imran,is that dodo model a real stuffed dodo?!--Hi!! i like dodos (talk) 22:02, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Extinction date

The two paragraphs beginning "There is some controversy.." and "The last known dodo..." are mutually contradictory. Can anyone provide references for the second paragraph?

The dodo is not the only known animal to be extinct in recorded time. The Great Auk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinguinus became extinct in the mid 19th century. It also became extinct becasue of humans, it was a prized pet and good eating. 13. apr. 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Torvaldur (talk • contribs) 23:31, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Linnaeus' naming

When Linnaeus assigned a genus and species to the Dodo, was that the first genus and species given to an an extinct animal? --Wetman 09:38, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Calvaria Tree

The discussion of the Calvaria tree is pretty isolated in the article -- easy to miss since I couldn't remember the name though it is something that I often hear about in association with the Dodo. Maybe it should go in its own section instead of "Family Raphidae". Actually, now that I say that it doesn't make much sense where it is now since it has little to do with the family of the species. The paragraph which discusses it over uses the verb "discover". It seems likely that many of the uses are suboptimal (maybe "theorized", "proposed", or "deduced" would be good alternatives). In any case, this page: http://home.conceptsfa.nl/~pmaas/rea/dodobird.htm (old version) http://www.petermaas.nl/extinct/speciesinfo/dodobird.htm (new version) (see the section titled "Food") claims that the theory that the birds were needed for the seeds has been disproven, though it doesn't offer a lot of evidence to back up the assertion.

Also, that site has a lot of other Dodo pictures, a picture of the tree, and the burned head of the last stuffed bird.

I've updated the link posted above. The previous one was an old version, the new one the current page. Peter Maas 07:33, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

About the evidence: it is indeed not cited well on that page. I will do that soon. For the evidence that the theory of Stanley Temple has been rebutted, I would suggest you reading: http://www.botany.org/PlantScienceBulletin/psb-2004-50-4.php#Dodo Citation of link/article: Herhey, D.R. 2004. The Widespread Misconception that the Tambalacoque or Calvaria Tree Absolutely Required the Dodo Bird for its Seeds to Germinate. Plant Science Bulletin (a publication of the Botanical Society of America, Inc.) Vol. 50, Nr. 4, pp. 105-109. I hope this helps, if not you will find other sources in the article references, etc. Peter Maas 07:56, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

A page wikipedia article on this tree can be seen at: Tambalacoque. Peter Maas 08:07, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

I checked the linked disproval. It is not very objective either, in several of the examples Temple actually elaborated. (i remember seedgermination, comparing it with mauritian opportunitys for bird and that he describes the thickness of trees(the 'not easy' estimation of their age..) All in all now i think temple exagerated (the decline of trees) and underestimated the germination capacity but was possibly still quitte right in associating the two species. I guess it's the climate thing, people are not supposed to think of disappearing species as essential for an ecotope.80.57.243.16 12:09, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] speculation

I moved the following from the article - IMHO speculation doesn't belong into the article, and I cannot believe it anyway. andy 12:03, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

But is the dodo actually extinct? Although it no longer lives on Mauritius, there are a number of smaller islands around this one and some of these are yet to be explored by humans. Although unlikely as the dodo couldn't fly or (probably) swim, it may be that the dodo or some relatives of it live here. After all, something similar happened to the coelacanth...

[edit] HP Reference

The little blip about the "Diricawl" is amusing and seems to fit nicely in this article, because the original article has an encyclopedic feel to it, someone could almost be fooled into thinking they were reading a wizarding article on here. ;) Morhange 20:11, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] largest animal

I added "It was due to it being the largest animal on the then uninhabited island of Mauritius, thus the master of the territory." to the article but it was reverted. Maybe theres a better way to say it, but its important to say that the dodo was the largest animal, ie top of the food chain on Mauritius (no humans, or any other larger animals) - thats why it could nest on the ground, had no predators etc. Astrokey44 23:27, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

I should have had the courtesy to explain my rollback. The previous version implied cause-and-effect, which is speculative. Some animals, eg the phalaropes are very tame despite contact with humans. Apologies for my lazy rollback, I'm happy with the current version. jimfbleak 06:25, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

It wasn't not at the top of the food chain -- it ate only fruit. However, it's true it didn't have predators -- there was nothing there that could threaten a thirty pound bird with a beak like a claw hammer. In fact, historical records show that the dodo was not as defenseless as we think -- the records say that people to had to be careful when catching them -- they bit awfully hard. Dora Nichov 10:15, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Caps?

Why does the article refer to this animal as the Dodo? We don't say the Duck, or the Penguin, so why capitalize dodo? 142.217.16.115 20:39, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Individual species are capped in wikipedia, so duck, but Tufted Duck, penguin but King Penguin - Dodo is a single species jimfbleak 06:33, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

So the Dodo is an individual species of what? The do? Was there a Podo, a Fodo, Modo......? Using "Penguin" as an example, surely "dodo" should only be capitalised if there were (for example) a Tufted Dodo or a King Dodo....? Just a thought.... I do notice now, however, dodo is written in lower case letters. Frognsausage (talk) 16:18, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Popular Culture

This section is getting to be overshadow the actual information about poor old Raphus cucullatus -- I propose breaking it off as we did with Giant squid / Giant squid in culture. Any objections? Ben-w 01:26, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

None from me... it's been nearly 4 weeks now, split away... Tomer^talk 07:46, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Removed a great deal of trivia from this section; who cares if there was a Big Bird movie about them? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.173.59.5 (talk) 04:59, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

There is an old Porky Pig cartoon that prominently features a "do-do" bird. Josh-Levin@ieee.org (talk) 00:46, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

Someone's changed the extinction dates to the 1990s....... CFLeon 04:26, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Someone has also added "Hi mr Carr!!!" at the end of the first paragraph! Fayefox 22:28, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reason of Extinction

According to this trustworthy article: http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/expeditions/treasure_fossil/Treasures/Dodo/dodo.html?dinos 81.165.40.190 21:21, 2 July 2006 (UTC) define: trustworthy. ? If very well informed counts, the dutch historical material (its been 30+ years i saw it, dont ask for refs) says they were eaten by bunches , ships went there to provision ,and that it contributed to the extinction.(also dutch folklore had it they tasted nice). I think it was noticed rats (and pigs and other european animals) killed the rest or remain. In these early journals . This is however not in this "trustworthy" article, actually quitte the opossite, it suggest hunting played only a minor part. Considering the impact of rats, pigs etc. that killed off so many pelagics is one thing, but deforestation seems sooo improbable a reason this article becomes actually "untrustworthy". 80.57.243.16 12:31, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I've read a text that stated that monkeys and pigs were the primary reason for the dodo's extinction, and that humans played a relatively minor role.This book said that monkeys and pigs would squash or devour dodo eggs. If this is in deed the case, a vast majority of the article needs rewriting. However, I'm not an expert on the subject, so if someone could back me up or correct me my possibly incorrect idea, that'd be great.

Eenyminy (talk) 19:42, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] numbers

are there sources depicting the number of dodos at differnet dates until it became extinct ? Amoruso 01:05, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Highly unlikely. That quantative data wasn't collected back in those days, particularly by sailors. It was more "there were many greate fowlles on the islands" or "a sailor spoke to me of seeing many score of birds, but we saw none ourselves". Sabine's Sunbird talk 05:44, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Dumb as a dodo"

Should it be added that the dodo has been (probably unfairly) stereotyped as being unintelligent? Funnyhat 05:42, 28 August 2006 (UTC) It is also in the dutch journals. We cannot judge as to how stupid they really were, since many animals that evolved seperate from humans behave extremely stupid and naive. However the examples proof they were not to smart. They would (often sitting on a low branch) not move when aproached by provisioning sailors. As i understand it , when they could have been well aware of the danger since dodo blood etc. would be abound. They also made a stupid impression because they couldnt hardly anything at all, not fly, not run, just sit on their branches and get killed. I think the myth of the dodo's stupidity is directly related to its size and nutritional efficiency, probably you will find a folklore of stupidity around every larger pelagic species, certainly when it is edible, or even 'nice'(a valuable provision);)

fascinatingly thus i think the name: walghvogel in dutch may related to a behavioural habit or pattern in the bird, certain kinds of head and neck movements perhaps, that with birds typically cartooneskly illustrate 'walging', a regular spitting of some kind, or some such. Maybe though they just looked extremely disgusting when slaughtered, or it is about the smell. That was bad since it was compared to whaleoil. The fact they still largely provisioned on it suggest that dutch sailors liked fat meat, and perhaps they had a way to counter the smell, (i think they smoked dodos, but skinning comes to mind) and no , you can't deforest mauritius through smoking dodos. Apparently the dutch really minded the dodo (food) died out, they noticed both the rats and the slow reproduction rate when the dodo still existed. Didnt they release pigs or goats after that? i dont know, maybe it was another island. 80.57.243.16 13:08, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Island species often lose their fear of predators because anti-predator behaviour carries a cost (missed feeding opportunities), plus the fact that without selection pressure neutral behaviour like predator recognition is subject to drift. Sabine's Sunbird talk 20:02, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I expect part of the reason for "dumb as a dodo" is the alliteration. "Dumb as a doorknob" also used to be popular, and for the same reason. --Michael K. Smith 04:47, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

What about the slang French word 'dodo', meaning bedtime, or sleeping, is there anything in relation with the dodo bird (I don't think so, but it might). Androo123 (talk) 03:31, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Phylogeny

Please consider the notes on phylogeny at Rodrigues Solitaire and compare Johnson & Clayton (2000) (see Pigeon article) - at least cyt b cannot resolve the relationships of the Indoaustralian lineage properly. So the phylogeny proposed in the much-touted "Flight of the Dodo" paper must be taken with so much salt that it nearly becomes unpalatable, unfortunately. See e.g. their placement of "Gallicolumba beccari" (sic), which is almost certainly wrong. At any rate, here to copy'n'paste is the citation:

• Shapiro, Beth; Sibthorpe, Dean; Rambaut, Andrew; Austin, Jeremy; Wragg, Graham M.; Bininda-Emonds, Olaf R. P.; Lee, Patricia L. M. & Cooper, Alan (2002): Flight of the Dodo. Science 295: 1683. doi:10.1126/science.295.5560.1683 (HTML abstract) Supplementary information

In conclusion, cyt b should be avoided for determining the interrelationships of the Indoaustralian group (for some reason, it gives crystal-clear resolution of the columbine and zenaidine lineages, however) Dysmorodrepanis 18:05, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Last surviving specimen

In his book A Short History of Nearly Everything, Bill Bryson claims that the last surviving Dodo specimen was kept at the Ashmolean Museum in Oxford, until a caretaker mistakenly assumed it was rubbish and put it on a bonfire (it was apparently rescued, but not before it was seriously damaged). Is anyone able to verify this? If so, should it feature in the article? It would be a fairly pertinent symbol of mankind's regard for the species. Legis 14:02, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes that is true! Sadly enough. Parts of that specimen can still be seen at the Oxford University Museum of Natural History, namely the head and foot [3]. First it was part of the John Tradescant collection and its museum. Later is was passed on to the Ashmole Museum in 1659. In 1755, it was examined and, presumably under Ashmole's statute number 8, ordered for destruction. The instruction was obeyed, but not to the letter as parts still survive. The statute also ordered that it had to substituted, but as the bird was extinct that was not possible anymore. The parts were passed from the Ashmole museum to the Oxford museum (source: Errol Fuller's book "Extinct Birds"). Peter Maas 16:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

This is a very interesting snippet and could make a good 'Did You Know' item. - Ballista 16:16, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I heard too it was in some kind of Museum (or zoo), but how whould a guy think a bird, with feathers, be rubbish? Maybe he was a dodo too! See Dumb as a dodo Androo123 (talk) 03:40, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dodo Clones

Are there any scientists thinking in doing this with the remaining soft tissue? -Pedro 13:24, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Of course not. Cloning of mammals from living cells happens only by accident (it takes several 100 attempts to produce a viable embryo on average, and nobody knows why; although there are some rather good ideas as to why, if they were correct it would mean that cloning could never become a "mature" technology at all! Disruption of developmental gradients and/or genomic imprinting are the keywords here). Cloning of birds is technically impossible at present and will most likely remain so for quite some time. Cloning of extinct animals of which no cells have been preserved in liquid nitrogen is likewise impossible at present, and as far as any scientist can tell, it will always remain impossible because the genetic information is simply gone, "extinction IS forever". It is as if you try to recreate a book after all people that have ever so much as heard of it are dead, all specimens of the book have been burned, and all forests and whatever one possibly could make paper from has been destroyed. Yes, it is that extreme. Forget cloning of extinct animals or mammals and especially birds in general and play in the lottery or try to get killed by a lightning strike, your odds are far better. Dysmorodrepanis 14:33, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Like Dysmorodrepanis said, I too don't think any scientist is currently thinking of attempting to clone a dodo. With current technology this is not possible. Scientists that tried to clone the extinct Thylacine or Tasmanian Tiger have failed, because the DNA was too degraded. It would be impossible to order the "pieces of this broken puzzle". However, other scientists have continued the projects, but I don't think they can succeed either. QWith birds it would even be more difficult, as they lay eggs. Simply, we don't have the technology at this moment to do it. But I would never say never, who knows, maybe in a very far future. Peter Maas\^talk 16:15, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Silly link

Why is this link, to a 4x4 vehicle, in this article?

^ Steve Miller (September 25th, 2006). First The Dodo, Now Full-Size SUVs. Brand Week. Retrieved on 2006-09-26.

This article is about the extinct bird, the Dodo, not cars.

It is not in the External links section, but in the reference section. The article (which is linked) is used by someone as a reference for: The Dodo's significance as one of the best-known extinct animals and its singular appearance has led to its use in literature and popular culture to symbolize a concept or object that will or has become out of date, expressed in the expression "dead as a dodo". Peter Maas\^talk 16:08, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Looks like we're stuck with it then, popular culture it is! :-)

It seems it is. Peter Maas\^talk 12:13, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, indeed. Do you think there is a better example? Actually, if we wait a while, articles will start to appear saying that 4x4s (SUVs) are 'as dead as dodos'as their sales are collapsing. Then we could put that link in. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.111.57.241 (talk • contribs) 06:14, 4 December 2006 (UTC).

Maybe a well-known dictionary, a site with phrases, etc. Or for example http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dodo. Peter Maas\^talk 19:00, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Ja, dankje wel, Peter. I've just registered so I now have a name! meicmeic

[edit] Vandalism

Some idiot vandalized the page. Looks to me, however, that as I was in the middle of writing up my rant at being thwarted from fulfilling the thirst for knowledge, the Anti-Vandalism bot dealt with my unexpressed complaints. Due to this swift and decisive maintenance, I really have no reason for posting here anymore...However this experience begs the question: how many times has the Dodo article been vandalized? -- BaiginLong 14:28, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

• A lot, lately -- I think it may be a Stephen Colbert thing again. Ben-w 04:58, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Popular name

Why does the article currently give its popular name as "Mauritius Dodo"? I've never heard it called that, just dodo. --Yath 18:45, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

The common name "Mauritius Dodo" derives from the time that it was thought that the neighbouring island Réunion had also a dodo species, the "Réunion Dodo", "White Dodo" or "Réunion Solitaire". Now it is considered that there has been only one dodo species, namely on Mauritius, so calling this bird just dodo will not result into confusion anymore. A relative of the dodo lives on the island Rodrigues, the Rodrigues Solitaire. The dodo of Réunion is now mostly considered to be the Réunion Sacred Ibis. Peter Maas\^talk 13:49, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I guess it's not really a common name, then? --Yath 00:00, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, yes it is. A species can have more than one common name. Peter Maas\^talk 15:06, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't see any discussion of how many common names a species can have. --Yath 03:32, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Dodo Remains found

You guys might find this article useful. --144.51.42.5 11:53, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Someone wrote in that the Dodo was found in a cave in the Indian Ocean (?). I changed it to Mauritius. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.145.115.186 (talk) 06:59, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Somewhat ORry

Although there are scattered reports of mass killings of dodos for provisioning of ships, archaeological investigations have hitherto found scant evidence of human predation on these birds

This is mostly OR but isn't the above missing the point. If people only caught the birds when they want them to take on ships then would it be likely most of the bones would have been discarded into the sea? Personally I don't know if anyone would hunt the dodo even for ships given their apparent poor taste and toughness when there were apparently better options available but that's a different matter (and Americans eat turkey so...) Nil Einne 21:40, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Good Article Reassessment

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. I question the quality of this article based on the Good article criteria. For that reason, I have listed the article at Good article reassessment. Issues needing to be address are listed there. Regards, Corvus coronoides _{talk 18:15, 25 November 2007 (UTC)}

[edit] Google description

When one searches on Google for "dodo", the first result is this Wikipedia page. The page description, however, is in very bad form: "Encyclopedia article explains how they all died, and use in popular culture." "how they all died" is a really terrible way of describing extinction, and there's much more in this article than just how they became extinct and their use in popular culture. Is it possible to change the page's description for Google? I propose something like "Features information about the extinct bird species of the dodo." Taylor 04:11, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Amusing" referencing

"It is commonly believed that the Malay sailors held the bird in high regard and killed them only to make head dressings used in religious ceremonies.[17] However, when humans first arrived on Mauritius[...]" So either they lived in more places than Mauritius, or Malay sailors aren't humans :) ~~Anonymous Coward —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.233.36.168 (talk) 22:08, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

It does not say that, it says they did not often kill them but they brought animals that plundered the dodo nests, and they destroyed the forests where the birds made their homes.--Patrick 22:53, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

What is written above is correct. This reference about the head dressings is untrue. As a project for a high school philosophy class we were required to do some editing on wikipedia. One addition had to be true and one false, but believable. I added this sentence as a false but believable fact. The book that it cites does not actually exist. After my project ended I tried to take this off the page but after I deleted it it was added back! Please take this sentence off; it was created by me and is not true! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.111.244.78 (talk) 18:50, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Removed. Also I would appreciate it if you would tell your philosophy teacher to find an assignment that does not involve vandalizing Wikipedia. Thanks, Artichoker^[talk] 18:55, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] GA Sweeps (Pass)

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. The article history has been updated to reflect this review. Regards, Corvus coronoides _{talk 23:27, 19 December 2007 (UTC)}

[edit] Old paintings

Did any of the creators of the old paintings used in this article actually observe living dodos, or were the paintings based on other accounts? Funkynusayri (talk) 17:06, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I hope you'll be interested in this: I just added a link (in the External links section) to an online copy of Strickland's The Dodo and its Kindred, a book that attempts to reconstruct the appearance and habits (and flavor...) of the dodo from sailors' notes. It's a wonderful, rare book & includes a number of interesting plates, including illustrations of the dodo remains in the B.M. [oop!] Ashmolean Museum collection with an artist's reconstruction of what fresher remains may have been like.--MaryBowser (talk) 19:32, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Nice! Should be used as reference if the article is ever expanded. FunkMonk (talk) 19:46, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Popular Culture Cleaning

There is much irrelevant and useless trivia in here. Who cares if Big Bird was in a movie about Dodo birds, or if there was something about them in GTA3? Seriously, after the first three points there is really nothing of value. The main importance of the Dodo in popular culture is as a symbol of extinction (its position on the coat of arms of Mauritius is also important). That it got referenced by some poem or television show is utterly relevant--and all of this stuff should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.173.59.5 (talk) 06:54, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, most of the section is useless trivia. I deleted some of it and will have a longer look at it later on. Trevor GH5 (talk) 04:35, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

• I'd say the Alice In Wonderland appearance is quite notable, maybe the most notable appearance of the dodo in pop culture. Why did it have to go? Funkynusayri (talk) 13:09, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Etymology

In the etymology section its written that "Some ascribe it to the Portuguese word dodoor...". Portuguese is my native language and I have never heard that word. I am sure you won't find it in any portuguese dictionary, there are very few words in portuguese with double "o", none with similar construction.

A quick google search and I found this:

'There are two speculations on where the name for the dodo came from. The more accepted source is the Dutch word "dodoor" which mean "sluggard." This word describes both the dodo's looks and appearance. The other speculation is that the name comes from the Portuguese word "doudo" which, meaning foolish or simple. (Strickland and Melville, 1848)'

 http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Raphus_cucullatus.html 

'Dutch word "dodoor" which means sluggard and Portuguese word "doudo" meaning foolish or simple, are thought to be the origin of the word Dodo.'

 http://dimdima.com/ecology/ecology_common/show_ecology.asp?q_cat=Lost+For+Ever&q_aid=91&q_title=Dead+as+a+Dodo 

200.169.27.44 (talk) 14:51, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Original drawing by Roland Savery from 1626

Can be found here, and is obviously in the public domain: [4] It is less washed out and seems to be more anatomically accurate (shape of the beak) than the painting by Jan Savery, which is based on it. Should we replace it? It's kind of odd to have an image with the caption saying it is based on another image, why not have the original image in instead then? Funkynusayri (talk) 13:47, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

• Switched them. An argument for using the other image could be that it is more famous, but that doesn't hide the fact that it is less accurate, since it's kind of a third hand restoration or what you could call it. It might be more fitting in a pop culture section due to how famous it apparently is. Funkynusayri (talk) 15:03, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
• I was wondering why the caption to the Savery image notes "two left feet and that the bird is obese from captivity." It seems like the caption holds very little merit but is has persisted through many versions. Any reason for this? Matt9310 (talk) 06:29, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
• Might very well be original research, but it does seem like the feet are identical. Funkynusayri (talk) 06:38, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] what is the exact meaning of the phrase "as dead as dodo"

Does it only mean somebody or some person is dead

or it may mean that somthing is missed or disappeared?

Thanks!--Ffnone (talk) 14:15, 13 August 2008 (UTC) i am r god person —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.88.72.245 (talk) 22:13, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

"'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!"

More seriously, it just means that something is absolutely, totally, thoroughly dead. Of course "dead" itself has a number of different meanings besides dead, and this can refer to many of them. TallNapoleon (talk) 06:47, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

And as such, the "dead" in "as dead as a dodo" may refer to "cessation of all bodily functions for a very long time," "a particular group or population having no living members what so ever," or, more rarely, having achieved a failure in some venture that is on par with Black Tuesday.--Mr Fink (talk) 13:44, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image of a stuffed Dodo

I was interested to read that the last stuffed dodo was discarded in 1755. I've got a scan of a postcard I've recently put up for sale. It's a photograph of a stuffed dodo. The dodo was in the African Museum on the Ile d'Aix, France. I'm not sure how old the postcard is, but definately less than 100 years old. The title of the postcard is "Dodo (Scopus ineptus)" If anyone would like a scan of the card I would be glad to forward it.

77.198.231.62 (talk) 21:04, 29 January 2009 (UTC) Angela Knutsen

The image is likely a reconstruction of a dodo rather than an actual dodo, created with plaster and feathers from other birds. Sabine's Sunbird talk 21:14, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I checked the description given by the muséum and they say that it is a stuffed specimen! I'm sorry I haven't been able to work out how to post an image. 77.202.52.14 (talk) 09:36, 30 January 2009 (UTC) Angela

Angela, is the postcard colourful or black-n-white? And what is the problem to scan it? After scanning, it can be uploaded from there. Krasss (talk) 14:22, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm still trying to upload the picture, it's on Wikepedia somewhere, but I can't get it onto this page! The postcard is sepia and judging from the quality of card used and the telephone number given by the publisher, dates between 1918 and 1939 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anjiknut (talk • contribs) 08:27, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

It is deed a reconstructed 'specimen', there are many of these in various museums. The only real mounted specimen is the one that has been destroyed. No others had been preserved. If it did, it would be world news and attrackt many visitors in that museum. Peter Maas\^talk 09:51, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Besides, the postcard shows a reconstruction of the dodo as scientists thought it would be, fat, etc. Now they think it look different, see for example the difference in a new and an old reconstruction at: [5]. Peter Maas\^talk 10:01, 31 January 2009 (UTC)