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Contents 1 Examples of Disguise appearence 2 Deception and intention 3 False conclusion. 4 Should "Specious" redirect here? 5 Dictdef

[edit] Examples of Disguise appearence

User:Dissembly removed the example "Depict a war as a peace mission", arguing that "this is not a politics forum". Instead I think that this is a perfectly appropriate example, that it's not infering any political POV since it's not referring to any specific war, and that its useful to have some non trivial examples.--BMF81 00:15, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

I believed it to be biased because "disguise" refers to concealing the identity of a physical object, the example "depicting war as peace" is far more abstract than that, and i don't see how it'd help anyone seeking information on 'disguise' (The reason i argue that it's political bias is that wether or not something is a "peace mission" is subjective judgement, whereas the example given treated it as an objective entity. In the current political climate, this seems politically charged, at the least). If disguise does, in fact, have some more abstract technical definition that i'm ignorant of, a little extra information clarifying this might be appropriate.

After thinking about it, i do agree that it's a form of deception, and that non-trivial, politically charged examples can be appropriate in some contexts. I don't think it belongs under 'disguise' (once again, this judgement depends on wether there's some technical definition i'm missing, as i said above...), however a section on propaganda/media&political bias/misleading debating tactics is relevant to the subject of "Deception", and perhaps this is where the example belongs.

Edited to add: I have modified the article in line with this idea. Is this a fair compromise?

--User:Dissembly

[edit] Deception and intention

I propose that deception occurs only if both of two conditions occur: (1) that there was an intention to deceive, and that (2) the target was successfully deceived. I mention this because if I accidentally tell a lie (for example, I might have misunderstood something and be sharing my incorrect opinion in good faith), I would not consider myself to be a deceiver. The second condition is required because I cannot be said to have deceived someone if they were not actually deceived - for them to be deceived takes place on their cognitive turf. Here are the combinations of intention and belief, only one is (I believe) deception...

- If I accidentally lie, and the target believes me, it is not deception. - If I tell a lie on purpose and the target believes me, it is deception. - If I accidentally lie and the target does not believe me, it is not deception. - If I tell a lie on purpose and the target does not believe me, it is not deception.

Opinions? Jas 01:32, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

What if there is no intention at all? What about signals sent my mimetic weeds that resemble crops? A definition should be based on a reliable source, not the reasoning of the article's contributors. Richard001 05:19, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that weeds send signals. If some of them happen to look more like crops (by some accident of genetic variation), then they might survive better, and this characteristic would help the genetic deviants to survive, but it's not deception any more than a poodle is deceptive by not being spotted in long grass. On your second point, what's unreliable about reason? :) Jas 00:14, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] False conclusion.

In hopes of exposing this type of deception (original research) hoepfully someone can find a similar reference to it..

Cult-feminists, used flawed generalized logic to manipualte the models of abuse...

Most victims of violence are female,(in a family setting) (one form of abuse) (not all violence is abuse) therefor all victims are female, and we must develop programs to stop violence against women, by men.

There may be more than one type of manipualtion here...

--Caesar J. B. Squitti : Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti 03:32, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

--Caesar J. B. Squitti : Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti 17:03, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Should "Specious" redirect here?

A question about whether Specious should redirect to this page has been raised at Talk:Specious#Apr 2008. Comments there would be appreciated. Rossami (talk) 00:30, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dictdef

Obviously, there are things that can be said about "deception" which are beyond a simple dictionary definition (which would not merit an actual Wikipedia article.) However, a quick look at the article and the talk page suggests that a great deal of the article is devoted to dictionary definition, and that it has been abused by POV-pushers all adding "examples", in the text and (by implication) in the See Also section. Ideally this article should probably be little more than a disambiguation page, doing the minimum to distinguish between the different forms of deception and then linking to other articles which explain that form. For instance, the section "Deception in Psychological Experimentation" (if it is not a copyright violation) should probably be spun off into an article of its own.

The problem is that the entire subject of "deception" is so huge that focusing on anything besides the very largest divisions of it is showing inappropriate focus. -- 65.78.13.238 (talk) 15:10, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Fair point: I have resubmitted my thoughts to WikInfo instead, as my contribution constitutes original research - I think. Jas (talk) 17:08, 23 February 2009 (UTC)