Talk:Dakar Rally Information & Talk:Dakar Rally Links at HealthHaven.com

Dakar Rally was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Reviewed version: June 7, 2006

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1 deaths
2 hellloooo
3 small error
4 The Dakar Rally
5 Incidents and statistics
6 Winners
7 Notable participants?
8 How do you enter the rally
9 Good Article nomination has failed
10 Sponsors section delete
11 Draw me a map
12 Routes distance?
13 All stage winners
14 Seems overly negative
15 From Russia with sand.
16 Missing people
17 Television Coverage
18 INFOBOX

[edit] deaths

Why are there no subnotes of all the African deaths attributed to this race? I was in Mali a few years back and met a mother whose 7-year-old was killed by a rally driver speeding through their village.

I added a note about this year's deaths, but I can't immediately find any more on previous deaths. I've read that the civilian death toll is somewhere between 30-40 for the history of the race. --Dewet 08:27, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

If there is going to be a separate section on deaths, it needs to be more complete. I would prefer to NOT list individual deaths unless we can get all or most of them. Benthatsme 12:47, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Some years have individual pages. I just updated details of the death of a rider in the 2007 race on the page for that year. Perhaps just linking to each year for the details of the death? Benthatsme 12:47, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

I for one really don't care about the winners. The list of winners here took a lot of work, does anyone really need it and would it be in a standard encyclopedia? But I don't even care about the winners when I'm watching the race; I'd like to see more coverage of the privateers and the support crews that scraped together all they had to make it out there. --justfred

Yeah, I also feel that the work is maybe unnecessary. I think that winners are the trivia that history will forget, but I guess there are a lot of people who are interested in exactly that. Dewet 20:49, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Several deaths are missing from the 1986 race including the other occupants of the helicopter and at least one participant -- Anon. User, 23 December 2006

[edit] hellloooo

the race is open to amatures, so its not just proffesional--GregLoutsenko 14:16, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] small error

I'm not sure but there seems to be an internal contradiction. It says the last race from Paris to Dakar was organized in 1994, but there was a race in 2001 going from Paris to Dakar as is stated just above the apparently erroneous assertion that the route was last run in 1994.

[edit] The Dakar Rally

Since the rally is no longer called the "Paris Dakar Rally," [1] perhaps the article should be changed to reflect this? 203.132.66.72 05:15, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Incidents and statistics

A number of news sources suggest that Andy Caldecott's death was the 23rd in the rally's history

Yet the current Wikipedia article talks about Meoni's death being the 45th

OZ_Rhett 02:02, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

I suppose implying not all deaths attributed to the rally consist of those competing. ozzmosis 18:50, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Winners

Missing one stage and already the Dakar have a winner? strange...

DiogoMartins 23:05, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notable participants?

Perhaps a short list of notable participants should be included. Loads of significant racers have run it over the years without winning...

[edit] How do you enter the rally

Can someone update me on how to enter the race? I would love to participate, but I do not know where to turn.

Try looking at the website.. --^pirate 16:10, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. This should be my first step and I have never thought of it. Norum 20.Jan.2007

[edit] Good Article nomination has failed

The Good article nomination for Dakar Rally has failed, for the following reason:

The article fails to meet most of the criteria for a good article. Bugmuncher 05:07, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

A good article has the following attributes.

1. It is well written. In this respect:

(a) it has compelling prose, and is readily comprehensible to non-specialist readers;

FAIL - the prose could use a little work. "Sabine...decided this would be a good location" seems awkward. Sentences should be complete. Specific nouns should replace nonspecific ones. "manufacturers represented" might be better than "examples" in Vehicles and classes section, for example. The incidents section doesn't read well; the Mark Thatcher topic sentence could be tweaked, and it's not clear how a participant in a road rally can die in a helicopter crash if helicopters aren't a class of vehicle allowed to race. Racers are described as being "KTM motorcyclists", etc. but the article doesn't clarify whether each entrant is affiliated somehow with the manufacturer, or whether it just means that's what they drive.

(b) it follows a logical structure, introducing the topic and then grouping together its coverage of related aspects; where appropriate, it contains a succinct lead section summarising the topic, and the remaining text is organised into a system of hierarchical sections (particularly for longer articles);

FAIL - the lead does not cover the scope of the article. It should probably describe where the race is held, too. The section about vehicles and classes could have a paragraph for each class, but facts about cars appear in the car paragraph and the motorcycle paragraph. The sponsors section is too short, and could easily be replaced by a sentence. It's also not clear whether these are the only soponors ever, or if they're the only current ones.

(c) it follows the Wikipedia Manual of Style;

FAIL - List of winners section name could be just "winners". Punctuation is inconsistent. See also the part on pronunciation.

(d) necessary technical terms or jargon are briefly explained in the article itself, or an active link is provided.

FAIL - Terms like "T4" should be explained.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable. In this respect:

(a) it provides references to any and all sources used for its material;

FAIL - only the section on criticism appeaars to be referenced.

(b) the citation of its sources is essential, and the use of inline citations is desirable, although not mandatory;

FAIL Only the section on criticism uses citations.

(c) sources should be selected in accordance with the guidelines for reliable sources;

PASS= all sources are mainstream news outlets.

(d) it contains no elements of original research.

FAIL - The only way to demonstrate that you are not doing original research is to cite reliable sources...

3. It is broad in its coverage, addressing all major aspects of the topic (this requirement is slightly weaker than the "comprehensiveness" required by WP:FAC, and allows shorter articles and broad overviews of large topics to be listed);.

PASS - I think I understand this topic now after reading about it.

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy. In this respect:

(a) viewpoints are represented fairly and without bias;

FAIL there is detectable bias in the article, especially in the part about the commentator and TV coverage. But to the article's credit, criticisms section is well-sourced.

(b) all significant points of view are fairly presented, but not asserted, particularly where there are or have been conflicting views on the topic.

FAIL - opinions are asserted in the article.

5. It is stable, i.e., it does not change significantly from day to day and is not the subject of ongoing edit wars.

I did not check this criterion because there are so many other reasons to fail the GA nomination.

6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic. In this respect:

(a) the images are tagged and have succinct and descriptive captions;

FAIL Captions should be one or more complete sentences. the selection of pictures is good.

(b) a lack of images does not in itself prevent an article from achieving Good Article status.

Thanks, and I hope you find these observations useful, Bugmuncher 05:07, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sponsors section delete

Is sponsors section really needed? Sponsors are changing every year, i would prefer to delete section then endless list of annual sponsors. Some comments? --Jklamo 15:32, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Draw me a map

Can somebody find & add, or link, historic route maps? Also, is there a reliable list of finishers? I've seen nothing that includes full names, nationality, & team. Trekphiler 23:11, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Routes distance?

What is the average total distance for each historical route, in km? Something like this should be listed. —pfahlstrom 22:30, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] All stage winners

I have all the stage winners for the Dakar Rally since 1979 to present. With their full names and nationality and makes. —Andreasu 12:40, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

It would be great if you could create yearly articles similar to 2007 Dakar Rally and put the results into each article. Gasheadsteve 08:02, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Certainly probably will give that a go, however I will go through the stats over and over in case I find some data error. I also have good connection with the Autosport Magazine who I also do historic stats for them, mainly in Formula 1 and Nascar. —Andreasu 21:02, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Seems overly negative

Nearly half the text is about negative 'incidents' and 'deaths' of (both racers and spectators). The Dakar Rallye is much much more. This should be shortened to one simple paragraph.

   26 racers have died, but that doesnt mean we need to dwell on it. Over 200 have died scaling Everest. Dozens have died at the Baja 1000--yet neither would get so much negative attention.

The comments by the pope, the far left in France, are not worth mentioning.

   The fact is more people fallow the Dakar Rally than the Tour de France. More watch this event than the French Open. It is the largest sporting event in January, and one of the top 10 in the world. (www.dakar.com)It is an inspiration to hundreds of millions in 180 countries who marvel at the racers and the scenery.    There are numerous educational and development projects financed by the events promoter (ASO) each year. There are litterally dozens of fundraising campaigns done by the individual racers each year--everything from breast cancer awareness to orphanages are helped by this event.

There is also the incredible media attention focused on the remote regions of the sahara and the sahel during the event. Putting pictures of that rarely visited part of the world into the psyche of 500 million or more TV viewers is a great service to humanity.

While there is no time for racers to stop in villages and buy things--a very large amount of the food and other supplies for the rally is sourced locally. (www.dakar.com) This is a huge boon the local economies. Hotels, gas stations, government services and tourist facilities along the route, both in europe and africa do significant business during the rally. Portugal alone sees over 300,000 tourists out on the race course. (www.dakar.com) Tourism to the Sahel region is certainly growing and this event more than anything else brings in tourists from Europe, both during and long after the rally is over.

   So perhaps a bit less dwelling on the negative and a bit more on the positive would go a long way to fairly presenting the Dakar Rally on Wikipedia.--Ekim Yak (talk) 23:52, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] From Russia with sand.

The 1983 entry lists the winner as Mercedes. If I remember correctly the actual winner was the french Lada Niva team. The Mercedes, which arrived first at the finish line, was disqualified for replacing the broken engine block during the race (such major components were not allowed to be replaced back then). In fact they actually arranged for a NATO cargo plane to land in the desert overnight and bring a whole new replacement engine direct from Germany, such was the fear of shame if a communist-made car won the Dakar. 82.131.210.162 (talk) 09:06, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, even the Russin wikipedia page lists Mercedes. Please provide some references.`'Míkka >t 21:41, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Missing people

was the 11th motorcyclist and the 45th competitor overall to die in the history of the race.

This is mentioned in 2003. But quite clearly the number of people listed before then doesn't come close. Where these incidents particularly notable, the people particularly notable, are we lacking sources or it just adhoc who we mention? Nil Einne (talk) 17:12, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Television Coverage

I deleted most of the Television Coverage section on the grounds that most of it just read as pure advertising "In Australia, the Dakar is covered by Fox Sports, with daily morning and afternoon recaps of the recent day's action." What remains is quite sufficient. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.179.134.81 (talk) 22:57, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] INFOBOX

I think that this major Rally race need a INFOBOX (like other many sport infoboxes e.g. Template:Infobox Cycling race report, and many others...) (Who wants to create one?? Template:Infobox Dakar Rally —TouLouse (talk) 17:43, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

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