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Christmas is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
August 24, 2004	Peer review	Reviewed
December 23, 2004	Featured article candidate	Promoted
January 1, 2006	Featured article review	Demoted
August 8, 2006	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
January 1, 2007	Peer review	Reviewed
December 9, 2007	Good article nominee	Not listed
December 15, 2008	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
Current Status: Former featured article

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WikiProject Holidays / Christmas

(Rated B-Class, Top-importance)

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To-do list for Christmas:

Here are some tasks you can do:

(Items suggested by peer reviewers)

Edit to eliminate redundancies that make the article too wordy
Edit to reduce vague terms of size - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”
Thorough copyediting
Eliminate unnecessary wikilinks (e.g. "birth", "volunteer", etc.) - mostly done, definitely should be double checked though
Incorporate a "Controversy" section with a "Main article:" link.

(Other items)

Add references to Arts and media section
Add references to Regional customs and celebration section

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day... section on January 7, 2005, December 25, 2005, January 7, 2006, December 25, 2006, January 7, 2007, December 25, 2007, January 7, 2008, December 25, 2008, and January 7, 2009.

[edit] Inaccuracy

In the "Decorations" section, it says large decorations such as illuminated sleighs and snowmen and outdoor lights only appear in Europe to a lesser extent than in other parts of the world. Speaking as someone from the UK, this is incorrect as nearly every house has some form of outdoor Christmas lights and large decorations. I am unable to edit the page because of its semi-protection, but I believe that part of it needs to be changed. After eight mints are a traditional snack.

The Greek (χ) chi has been used as an abbreviation since Constantine's Battle of Milvian Bridge in 312 AD. The practice began long before the 16th c. ^[1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.57.180.104 (talk) 13:26, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Massive Omission

This article seems to omit a great deal of relevant information regarding worldwide secular observance practices; namely, the shift of Christmas in developed nations from a strictly religious holiday to a holiday based on a tradition of consumerism. The current article pays only a small tribute to the economic significance of the celebration, despite widespread commercialization and noteworthy analysis of such practices.

I scanned through the talk pages, and the word "consumerism" is mentioned not once, even though the increasing secularization of developed societies has rendered standard Christmas observance to be a widely practiced ritual of buying.

The consumption rituals associated with the observance of Christmas deserve some mention in the article, along with a link to the article on consumerism. Readers looking for information on typical Christmas observances should be presented with a balanced view of the modern Christmas ritual, along with links to articles explaining the social dynamics of consumerism.

This should be discussed here on the talk page before insertion, since any edits to the page without prior consensus are sure to spark controversy. Stevenm55 (talk) 23:28, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

I wholeheartedly agree that the detail about Christmas having become a largely consumerist-driven holiday is missing sorely from the article. I think it even merits mention in the opening paragraph, because it really is one of the defining aspects of Christmas as we celebrate it today (especially in Western, secularizing countries). We're going to need some reliable sources documenting the consumerist-driven shift, with at least a few off-Internet sources being a good idea as well. I've done a minor rearrangement of the intro. paragraph already, and I think we can stick in a sentence or two about the consumerist shift either between the second and third or the third and fourth sentences. — CIS ^(talk | stalk) 00:59, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

You both make excellent points about the consumerism and apparently secular nature of this holiday. The problem is that I think you (and many others) imagine that at some point, people somehow understood the "true" meaning of Christmas, but we lost that meaning some time after the industrial revolution of Western civilizations at which time, Christmas bacame about presents and shoppping. This is simply not true. Here is a general breakdown of the history: long before Christ's birth, most agrarian civilizations in the Northern hemisphere celebrated the winter solstice (or gods representing the sun) through feasts and other traditions (decorated trees, yule logs, wreaths, etc). Christianity largely ignored these celebrations until proto-orthodox christianity began to emerge in the first few centuries of the Common Era. These early Christian churches denounced these winter celebrations as pagan. Nevertheless, Christian leaders could not stop these celebrations as they were so deeply ingrained in the cultures of these civilizations. Christianity wrestled with this issue for centuries. Should they embrace the holiday, but give it a Christian twist or should they condemn it all together? For centuries (and maybe still today) the debate continued. In the United States, Christmas celebrations did not become ingrained in the culture until about 120-150 years ago. What helped spark this renewed interest? Retailers, for the most part. The holiday as we know it today, was developed as a retail marketing campaign that capitalized on long-standing traditions. Where did Rudolph the Red Nosed Reigndeer come from? Who introduced the concept of Santa to the masses? When did gift-giving (and of course shoppinf) become popular and who pushed this tradition? The answer is that retailers, not Christ or Christianity, influenced this cultural phenomenon. I don't mean to discredit the importance of Christ's birth, but I do mean to say that Christ's existence has little to do with Christmas (past or present). Even in the behavior of true Christians, you will find that Christ only plays a part of a small percentage of their Christmas behaviors. It's really a fascinating story, but most people don't realize from where modern Christmas emerged. I think that's the story we should tell on Wikipedia rather than concoct some story about how the true meaning of the holiday was lost when some retailers and non-christians declared a war on the true meaning of Christmas. It's a hybrid holiday with strong secular roots and it was only recently named after Christ to appease Christian leaders who otherwise opposed these pagan holiday traditions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Elielilamasabachthani (talk • contribs) 14:31, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the history of Christmas is certainly nowhere near black-and-white. From what we know through various sources, the actual holiday named "Christmas" is the commemoration of the birth of Jesus (as sanctioned by the Catholic Church), but the date of December 25 was likely chosen to correspond with either the winter solstice or another pagan festival from the last centuries BC or first centuries CE. There is no direct evidence to suggest that any elements from these festivals themselves were incorporated into the celebrations of Christmas from the beginning, but it seems likely, as Christian leaders of the time were very likely trying to Christianize a pagan holiday to help convert pagans of the time. But Christmas itself is not a "pagan" holiday, because it is a totally separately-named and sanctioned holiday (done so, again, by the Roman Catholic Church). As for modern (19th/20th century) commercialization, you're right, it was retailers that pushed for this and also Santa is believed to have originated in 19th century American media (as mentioned in the intro. of the article). We certainly should be incorporating more about this modern commercialization, but we can't be adding any original research to the article. This means we can't say Christmas is a pagan holiday, we can't say the modern gift-giving and other aspects were all instigated by retailers, because there are no sources to confirm this. The exact origin of Christmas gift-giving, etc., may seem obvious as having been retailer-driven, but the true origin remains disputed and thus unknown. — CIS ^(talk | stalk) 19:36, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Not to belabor the point (you make some good ones) but historians generally do not feel that the origin of Christmas is up for dispute. In addition to cannonical documents, many other early church writings (letters, manuscripts, etc) clearly document the debate among early church leaders as well as the existence of these winter traditions before the Common Era. I guess my point is this, you can't change the name of a pagan holiday and then say it is somehow a new and separate holiday. For example, if we changed Halloween to Christian-ween and then claim that the holiday is meant to celebrate the baptism of Christ, it's not really a new Christian holiday. This is especially true if 90% of the behaviors and customs of this "new" holiday still mirror those of the original halloween. This holiday hijacking would be made worse if people started saying that we need to get back to the "true" meaning of the holiday as if it were always about Christ's baptism rather than costumes and candy. I don't propose changing the article based on this conversation, but it would make me more comfortable with the content if these historical points were considered as well as the counter view that the original and pure version of Christmas has been somehow been tarnished by consumerism and secular behaviors/customs. Perhaps this discussion really belongs on the Christmas Controversy page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Elielilamasabachthani (talk • contribs) 12:39, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

The so-called pagan "origin" of Christmas is only modern supposition and theorising, for which no solid evidence exists. Practically every day of the year was a pagan festival of some sort, so whatever date was chosen to celebrate Christ's birth, someone could say it was a pagan festival. The dates of Christmnas (Dec 25th) and The Annunciation (March 25th) correlate by the necessary 9 months - and this is the most likely origin of the dating. Doubtless some pagan habits of the winter season (Yule log etc) were adopted and christianised by ordinary people, but this does not make the festival a pagan one. Also the wide adoption of Christmas with very variable customs across the Christian world from Egypt to Scandinavia, Russia to Spain, indicates that there was a pure Christmas long before US shopkeepers cottoned on to it. Xandar 23:13, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

"so-called pagan 'origin'"? Really? Even among Christians, nearly all of the behaviors exhibited during this season are pagan. You can say that Christmas is about Christ's birth, but your behavior says something different. Your behavios says you are pagan. (of course, when I use the term "you", I am using it as a general pronoun and I'm not targeting a certain person).Also, December 25 was not "practically every other day of the year". Please research Mithras, Sol Invictus, Pan, the list goes on. When were their birthdays? Why was Christmas switched from January 6 to December 25? Was this a coincidence? I guess I agree that it's not fair to call modern-day Christmas a pagan holiday. I'm also not sure it's fair to call it a Christian holiday either, but either way, please don't any of you forget that early Christians had a difficult time competing with pagan traditions and beliefs. It is a historical fact that dwliberate actions were taken to "christianize" these people and customs. There is nothing wrong with this, just don't try to pretend that Christianity evolved without any influence from pagans. Elielilamasabachthani (talk) 13:34, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Misleading?

The following sentence is in the article..

Prominent phrases in Dickens' Yultide tale, 'Bah! Humbug!', and 'Merry Christmas', entered the English language.

This is misleading since clicking on "Merry Christmas" takes you to an article which states that the first recorded use of Merry Christmas was in 1565. Helsingann (talk) 16:24, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Having read the article..in 1565 'Mery' meant "agreeable", something completely different to 1843 when 'Merry' meant "joyous"/"cheerful" - the context Dickens used it, hence the term had new meaning. http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/merry-christmas.html Secondly, first source i looked at, Readers Digest - "Dickens popularized many aspects of Christmas... our language has been enriched by the tale.... "Bah! Humbug!" when feeling irritated or disbelieving. And the phrase "Merry Christmas!" gained wider usage after the story". http://www.readersdigest.ca/christmas/kind_christmas/burns.html

— Raf45Martinez (talk) 19:51, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Two articles?

Shouldn't the articles on Christmas and Christmas Day be separate? Christmas is a season, of varying length in different countries, not just a day. And Christmas Eve has its own article, as well as Boxing Day and Twelfth Night. Why is "Christmas Day" demoted? Having two articles would also give room for more discussion on things like secular influences and differing celebrations of the day in different countries. Helsingann (talk) 16:11, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

This has already been brought up. The solution was to embolden and wikilink "Christmastide", the extended Christmas season, in the first paragraph. — CIS ^(talk | stalk) 21:50, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Pagan Connections to Christmas

There are many encyclopediac references which indicate that many of the customs associated with Christmas have pagan connections to the celebration of the Winter Solstice. The date December 25 is thought to have been associated with the victory of the unconquered sun, which is around the time of the winter solstice when daylight hours start to lengthen. This might also be a part of an article on Christmas, without being dogmatic about any connections from various sources. http://www.origin-of-christmas.com/ http://www.essortment.com/all/christmaspagan_rece.htm Also, some religious groups, many evangelicals, some Pentecostals, Jehovah's Witnesses, don't celebrate Christmas, so this might also be mentioned.209.212.20.5 (talk) 19:10, 12 November 2009 (UTC)Natural

[edit] Religious, not historical, Roman festival

We err to say that the Roman significance of 25 December was anything but religious. In the first paragraph, "...may have initially been chosen to correspond with either a historical Roman festival or the winter solstice," should in no uncertain terms reference "a ~~historical~~ religious Roman festival."CalebPM (talk) 04:49, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Historical, in this context, means a festival that no longer exists, but existed at the relevant time. — CIS ^(talk | stalk) 06:29, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Sprucing up

The article needs some serious sprucing up before Christmas this year. It is not at all comprehensive in its treatment of the festival and its celebration, and in places is poorly written and badly ordered. I've made a start by restoring the original order, with the section on the nativity coming just after etymology, and before the very lengthy historical section, which most readers will be less interested in. I've also begun to add a more comprehensive account of how it is celevbrated. The sections on decorations and Santa Claus need work too, and there needs to be a section on important worship events, and other events of the Christmas period, religious and secular. Xandar 23:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree that this article needs some serious work, especially in the body of the article. I've tried to fix up the intro as best as possible so far, but even that needs more work. I hope we can all work together to vastly improve this article before Christmas. — CIS ^(talk | stalk) 14:23, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Father Christmas

The article currently says: In addition, Father Christmas (known as Santa Claus in North America and Ireland) is a popular mythological figure in many countries, associated with the bringing of gifts for children. Two issues to discuss

1 According to the Father Christmas article, he was not originally a gift-bringer nor associated with children
2 To say FC is known as Santa Claus indicates this is a different name for the same figure, when actually there are a number of differences - emphasized to diff degrees by diff people
3 the present wording gives primacy to the name FC - suggesting the other name is somehow an alias, mistake, or misnomer.

Instead, perhaps, say something like:

A popular mythological figure, known as Father Christmas in many countries, and as Santa Claus in North America and elsewhere, is associated with the holiday--JimWae (talk) 22:57, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

That change seems fine to me. When I made that edit in my intro revamp I wasn't sure exactly how it should be worded, because although both figures have differing histories, they are essentially the same character. And since FC is the norm in more countries than Santa Claus is, I thought he chould come first. But nonetheless, your change looks fine to me. — CIS ^(talk | stalk) 21:55, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

There is also the factor of Saint Nicholas - who doesn't currently get enough mention. Xandar 00:44, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Nativity scenes and U.S. law

Haven't there been a few court cases since 1984? Isn't the standard now that such displays are OK if they incorporate other seasonal displays, but that if a level of gov't displays ONLY a creche it IS a first-amendment "establishment of religion" problem--JimWae (talk) 23:05, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Briefly, yes on both points. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 14:42, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

There still seems to be a lot of controversy about this in the US. It needs a bit more research. Xandar 00:46, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Structure reorganization

With this edit, I've restructured the entire article. I know there has been some controversy about the placement of the "Nativity of Jesus" section, but this clearly belongs as a "Celebration" subcategory, and I've listed it first there. The "history" section must come before the "celebration" section, as with any other Wikipedia article. I hope we can, together, further improve the readability and flow of the history section, because currently the "Pre-Christian" history section does not flow well at all, it just lists short summaries of Sol Invictus and Winter festivals. We need to incorporate a flow here, explaining the influence of these festivals on Christmas in a historical context. Please, I hope people can come here to discuss how to improve this. The article's body has been messed up for the longest time, and I think it's about time we really went about fixing it. — CIS ^(talk | stalk) 14:52, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

I disagree with the placement of the "history" section above that describing what Christmas is and what it is all about. I think it is important to have the description section first. History sections, especially if they are extremely lengthy and esoteric, are not always sited at the top of articles. To compare this with the treatment of equivalent articles on other major festivals: Easter starts with a section on religious significance, before history and disputes over origins, etc. Passover does the same thing, as do Diwali and Eid ul-Fitr, where there is little about history at all.

95% of readers will want to know first what Christmas is and what happens at that time. I can guarantee that they will not want to read through long pages of theories about Roman Gods and Sol Invictis, followed by large reams on Lutheran and Calvinist interactions with the festival in the 16th Century. If the history section was short and to the point, having it first would be less of a problem. But we should be producing an article for Readers not Editors. An early and basic explanation of Christmas is the most necessary and sought after section, and needs to be at the top (after etymology). At the moment most readers will be puzzled what the article is about, and stop reading, since they won't immediately want to be bogged down in irrelevant (to most people) theories about pagan gods of 2000 years ago. The current layout is confusing and off-putting IMO. We need to restore a nativity section to the top. I agree that details of Celebration etc. can be lower down. Xandar 23:23, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Okay, maybe we can swap out "History" for "Celebration", reverse the order? Does that sound okay to you?. — CIS ^(talk | stalk) 01:45, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

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