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Has anyone got any idea about the historical background to this nursery rhyme?

Possibly, but not our article. It points to a website at www.famousquotes.me.uk which has a lot of invented/traditional but false "histories" for nursery rhymes. For example its ring a ring a roses gives a plague history on no evidence. Given that nursery rhymes change very fast until written down many seem unlikely. The plague history was authoritatively demolised by Iona Opie in "the Singing Game". I don't know what she says about Baa Baa Black Sheep, but there will be something. Francis Davey 10:28, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Dame v. Maid 2 Anyone know 3 Which Birmingham? 4 Coloured parents? Coloured children?! 5 This alleged censorship is rubbish. 6 baa baa ethnic minority sheep 7 baa baa corporate sheep 8 Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep 9 I hav 10 "Cries" vs. "Lives" 11 Dame should read DANE. 12 Is there a source for little Sean from Aberdeen? 13 Unsourced versions 14 Baa, Baa, White Sheep?

[edit] Dame v. Maid

I have heard the rhyme recited as either "One for the dame" or "One for the maid". Should the latter be put in brackets?

Sounds like a mistake to me since it doesn't rhyme and dame does (well near enough). Francis Davey 08:33, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anyone know

What is the source of this rhyme? Rich Farmbrough 16:05, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Which Birmingham?

Many cities are named Birmingham. Which Birmingham is the article text talking about?

It is refering to the England city of Birmingham I remember something to this nature being mentioned on the news over here in the UK and here is a follow up article on the "scrapping" of the idea BBC News - Nursery rhyme ban scrapped

[edit] Coloured parents? Coloured children?!

How ironic that in an article discussing racial sensitivity the outdated term "coloured" should be used twice. I know many black people who would be deeply offended to be referred to as 'coloured' (they wouldn't care less about Baa Baa Black Sheep, however).

the trouble is that what is "sensitive" varies from place to place. Here (in the UK) "black" seems to be favoured, and "colour" not approved of, but I know that is not true in other places.

Who says that "coloured" people are necessarily black? Maybe they're some other non-white ethnic group. Just a thought. Pygmypony (talk) 15:31, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] This alleged censorship is rubbish.

The various claims about banning the rhyme in different places in different times are complete bollocks, an urban myth that's been doing the rounds in the press - even dear old Auntie - since 1986. Ou tis 00:46, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

My little cousin learnt it as 'Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep'. Unfortunately, it does happen. From my personal experience, most people (including black people) think that it is ridiculous. I'm in England, by the way. Zestos (talk) 05:41, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] baa baa ethnic minority sheep

Baa baa ethnic minority sheep, have you any wool derived products? Yes sir, yes miss, three bags full. One for the democratically elected leader, one for the dame. One for the vertically challanged child that resident down the lane. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.11.188.27 (talk) 12:18, 4 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] baa baa corporate sheep

Yes this corporate sheep distributes its yeild 1/3rd portion to the promoters (masters), 1/3rd to labours (dame/maid who looked after the sheep) 1/3rd for the social commitment (who is lying down the lane) comment by leo, 5 April 2007

[edit] Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep

Under "Modern Alterations" this page currently reads the following: 'These changes have met with considerable criticism, many citing it as "political correctness gone mad", because of the fact that the rhyme was changed for racial and not for educational reasons.'

However, one of the sources cited, Nursery opts for 'rainbow' sheep, quotes the charity, Parents and Children Together (Pact) as saying that the changes were made for educational reasons. I am going to edit this section to read the following instead: 'These changes have been met with considerable criticism, many citing it as "political correctness gone mad', because of the presumption that the rhyme was changed for racial reasons, despite the claim of one of the bodies involved that the changes were educationally motivated.'

I also wonder how appropriate the phrasing "several kindergartens and nurseries have been teaching children different versions of the rhyme" is when the sources linked only talk about two or three specific cases in the United Kingdom. --Foetus In Fetu 18:58, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

It's ridiculous! "Baa Baa rainbow sheep" doesn't exactly go. The rhyme isn't referring to skin colour anyway, plus since when was there rainbow sheep? At least you get black sheep! I'm sure some black people feel that by the schools doing that, it is making the rhyme racist. Whoniverse93 talk? 23:45, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] I hav

its swedish also, by a guy named augustBold text —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.131.35.195 (talk) 08:47, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Cries" vs. "Lives"

I have heard the rhyme as "the little boy who cries down (or in) the lane." Perhaps put it in brackets or as a different version? Graymornings 03:14, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dame should read DANE.

This nursery rhyme is consistently miswritten (and recited) by referring to a Dame. In the middle ages women were regarded by and large as chattels of men and would in any event never be referred to as "dame" which is the shortened word for the French Madame (meaning 'my lady') and to which would be apportioned the name of the husband. However large parts of England were occupied by Vikings and their descendants and were known as Danes (for Danish). Indeed, were a line drawn from the Wash to Chester everything North of that line was under DaneLaw. Places like Leicester and York being under Dane Law are well documented and existed before the Norman (ie French language conquest)and after the conquest the cultural elements remained deeply entrenched in the countryside right up to the times of the great wool trade where traders not only provided wool for domestic consumption but for export too. So "one for the Master" (home), "one for the Dane" (established export) and "one for the little boy down the lane" (anyone else)Charlesenglish 00:14, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Nice theory, but is there, in fact, any evidence for it? I bet no. Nursery rhymes don't generally represent ancient traditions so its very unlikely that something dating back to the Danelaw would turn up. If you can prove it, produce the references (and I don't mean another website or recent book with the same theory). Francis Davey 08:33, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is there a source for little Sean from Aberdeen?

I have moved to here the bit about a second verse mentioning Sean from Aberdeen pending a reliable source. The text in the article was:

An occasionally used second verse is:

Thank you said the master,

Thank you said the dame,

Thank you said the little Sean

Who lives in Aberdeen.

Does anyone have a reference for this? Stumps 22:05, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

No - but where I live te second verse is

Thank you said the master,

Thank you said the dame,

Thank you said the little boy,

Who Livesdown the lane.

Perhaps it could just be mentioned? Vitual aelita (talk) 23:02, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Unsourced versions

This article has several versions that are not supported by citations. I plan to remove them to stop the article getting out of hand as editors have a habit of adding endless and often pointless versions once it begins. If you have citations please supply them. If you have reasoned objections to this move please give them in this section.--Sabrebd (talk) 07:33, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Baa, Baa, White Sheep?

Am I right to think that in Britain there is a version, Baa Baa White Sheep, where the sheep has no wool for anyone:

Baa, Baa, white sheep, have you any wool? No sir, No sir, No bags full, None for the master, none for the dame, and none for the little boy who lives down the lane.

I'm sure I remember being taught this in nursery. Could anyone back me up? Lwebdan (talk) 20:14, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

I've not heard that before. I was born in the UK and lived in various parts of England and Scotland and can't recall hearing it. However, I found this from Australia, it's on the last page. I also came across this from the US. It has black, white and grey. The interesting thing there is that it's spelt "grey" and not the usual US spelling of "gray". Enter CambridgeBayWeather, waits for audience applause, not a sausage 01:33, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

The odds are that the white sheep version is one of the many local variations. They come and they go, often in attempts to lengthen the rhyme. Some make it into print, but none has so far become an accpeted part of the rhyme.--SabreBD (talk) 07:39, 7 December 2009 (UTC)